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Postby MattC » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:29 am

O.K. folks give me your honest opinion: I lost tonight as a result of my league (Yahoo) giving the Tampa Defense credit for McCardell's recovered fumble from an INT TD . . . I say that he was on the field as an offensive player. The league gives a receiver who catches a tipped ball an OFFENSIVE TD. When Sapp scored a Receiving TD the Tampa D got points. I say that this means that the league considers Defensive players as part of the Defense and Offensive players, on the field as Offensive players, are by definition NOT part of the Defense. I feel the McCardell owner (who drafted him) deserves the points for his players performance, not the team who drafted the Tampa D (of which McCardell is not a part). Obviously, as this cost me the game, I do not feel I am objective . . . I have, however, protested this to the Commish of my league and was wondering what other people might think.
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Postby Stingy D » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:41 am

Hmm... Giving Sapp's TD to the Tampa D is ridiculous, at first blush.

Also, to say that the instant a turnover occurs, the teams swap Offense and Defense does not jibe. If that is so, the "defensive TD", such as an INT returned for a TD, is really an Offensive TD, right?

I don't see how to get around that, other than to say, whichever you are on when the ball is snapped, you are on that side for the duration of the play.

I agree with you!

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Postby awwchrist » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:51 am

well NFL rules considers it a defensive TD since Indianapolis had possession of the ball. How Yahoo determines it, is completely up to them.


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Postby dgroundhog_ffc » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:17 am

I believe it is scored (temporarily) as a defensive TD, but YAHOO! will probably alter it tomorrow. My first year on Yahoo, so I haven't experienced how their scoring handles it.

It should NOT be a defensive TD. Teams do not 'switch' sides mid-play. The NFL and it's precious little stat keepers always want to categorize a tackle as a defensive stat, and no other. That leads to the opinion that the players have actually switched sides somehow. It is an error that has gone unnoticed except by fantasy players.

In my commissionered money league, the TD would most certainly NOT be a defensive TD. Any web-scoring that led to that happening would be corrected.

In a Yahooo or some other informal league, who knows how it gets scored in the end. It's almost best to set up the scoring and let it run.
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Postby AF » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:34 am

This situation is a little different from one that I faced earlier in the year but I will add my input. I was playing against the owner of the Ravens D when Lewis fumbled the ball and the FB picked it up and ran it in. Yahoo scored that as a D TD until tuesday when it was taken away from him. That situation was different because the "D" on the field during the snap never possesed the ball but Yahoo did reverse the role. I would not be surprised if they did this same thing with the TB TD. However the way I see it is it will be scored to the TB D. But I don't claim to know everthing on these matters.

Note: I was playing the owner of the TB D tonight, can I get some more funky situations for the D's that I am playing please. Two funky plays in 5 weeks, I mean what the hell is going on?
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Postby dgroundhog_ffc » Tue Oct 07, 2003 2:44 am

Tthat's a coincidence.

I wonder if anyone used Baltiwhore's defense to cover Tampon's bye week, then used Succaneer's this week.

That'd be about the only stranger scenario.
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Postby mikehunt » Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:34 am

ONe other thing that I might is this. A O player can get a touch back also right. So really I think with the ball actually changing hands and then back again McCardell does become a Defensive player. You have to remeber that a int for a touchdown is going to the defence and a Defence is try to stop a play right. Well in this situation the becomes the D cause they are trying to stop the play that the Int caused. Really the whole thing is confusing. I would out right disagree with Sapp getting a touchdown on the play were he was thrown the ball. This shoul dnot have gone to the Defence dor points.

I guess this is why player d is way better than Team D. I know week in week out what the heck all my players are doing with no screw ups. But that is another topic.

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Postby hurricane » Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:14 am

I'm in a yahoo league, and I dont think Sapp's TD got credited to TB defense. Tipped ball TD and Lewis' fumble-TD, there were no change of possession. I think the McCardell ruling will stand.
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Postby dgroundhog_ffc » Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:35 am

It'sa a tough thing to get around until it gets scored consistently in a sensible way. Leagues will score it differently, but it needs to be resolved by the league or the commish - hopefully the commish is not affected by the decision.

http://www.myfantasyleague.com did NOT credit TB with a defensive TD, but it DID give them a defensive fumble recovery (by opponent) which is worth a point. That point would be contested by an alert owner, and it would be deducted from his opponent's final score (only if the outcome will change-we accept the small insignificant errors). The commish is not responsible to catch all scoring 'errors' as we have determined them to be in our league.

Not every league will score it that way. If you decide to leave it the way the website scores it, you would have to let it go. The offensive/defensive possession rule needs to be cleared up in every league with a commissioner, ASAP. It is a perfect time to bring it up since it was MNF.

Our decision was made years ago when the league was still pen and paper and USA Today was the official source for all scoring. We've modernized a bit since then, but the rules stand because they make sense. If a team starts the play on defense, they finish it on defense. If a player starts a play on offense and recovers a fumble after a turnover no credit is given for a defensive fumble recovery. Punts, kickoffs, EXP's, FG's etc. are special teams play on either side and included in the defensive stats.

There are about 4 or more legit ways to score it when you consider which unit gets credit for the recovery.

1 give the offensive player credit for the TD and the defense credit for a fumble recovery (as it was scored on our site)

2 an offensive TD and fumble recovery (as our league rules state it would be scored)

3 a defensive TD and offensive fumble recovery (doesn't make a whole lot of sense)

4 a defensive TD and fumble recovery (seems to be the way the 'switchers' would score it - but since the Bucs started on offense, and their argument states they ended on offense since they had possession of the ball and scored, that makes no sense)
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Postby M_Zimm_ffc » Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:27 am

That is dumb, he didn't even cause the fumble. Do you know if it went against the Colts D?
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