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Cardinals beat Bears on Monday night!

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Postby PyRo8 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:25 pm

Humpback wrote:
J_rob_the_ Baller wrote:anyone else think the cards can chalk up this loss to horrible play calling.

They couldnt run all game, yet how many times on 3rd and 6 or 7 did they try to run the ball. In the red zone, 2 times they ran on 3rd and had to settle for a field goal.

And then in the second half, they went into a conservitive shell and instead of trying to finish off the game and win, they just tried not to lose. Leinert was doing well in the first half, they should have let him loose again in the second half to do his thing.

Yeah, you can blame it on rackers missed FG, but the coaches for arizona should have done a better job of trying to put more points on the board, and then the FG wouldnt have been an issue.


I agree, the playcalling was terrible. Chicago has an awesome D, and they had 8 guys in the box most of the game. Arizona would put out 1 WR sometimes and run right into the middle of the 8 man front. Brilliant! Chicago had a tough time stopping the pass, I don't know why they didn't stay with it more. Get Edge the ball on some sweeps and screens! No one's going to run through 8 of the toughest defensive players in the game. Edge should've had 6 catches this game instead of all those carries. Brutal.


it's easy to say the playcalling was horrible. but in the end, everything worked out the way the coaches wanted it to. if it wasn't for any of these mistakes: leinart fumble, edge fumble, punt return td, rackers missed fg, cardinals pbly come out of the game victorious. the blame goes on the players' abilities to execute. that's y they lost the game, not the playcalling. y not run 2 minutes off the clock and let the chicago offense get on the field? it hasnt been able to do anything all night long. get that playmaking chicago defense off the field. no mistakes and the cardinals would've won. true the playcalling wasn't amazing but hindsight is 20/20.
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Postby Humpback » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:38 pm

PyRo8 wrote:
Humpback wrote:
J_rob_the_ Baller wrote:anyone else think the cards can chalk up this loss to horrible play calling.

They couldnt run all game, yet how many times on 3rd and 6 or 7 did they try to run the ball. In the red zone, 2 times they ran on 3rd and had to settle for a field goal.

And then in the second half, they went into a conservitive shell and instead of trying to finish off the game and win, they just tried not to lose. Leinert was doing well in the first half, they should have let him loose again in the second half to do his thing.

Yeah, you can blame it on rackers missed FG, but the coaches for arizona should have done a better job of trying to put more points on the board, and then the FG wouldnt have been an issue.


I agree, the playcalling was terrible. Chicago has an awesome D, and they had 8 guys in the box most of the game. Arizona would put out 1 WR sometimes and run right into the middle of the 8 man front. Brilliant! Chicago had a tough time stopping the pass, I don't know why they didn't stay with it more. Get Edge the ball on some sweeps and screens! No one's going to run through 8 of the toughest defensive players in the game. Edge should've had 6 catches this game instead of all those carries. Brutal.


it's easy to say the playcalling was horrible. but in the end, everything worked out the way the coaches wanted it to. if it wasn't for any of these mistakes: leinart fumble, edge fumble, punt return td, rackers missed fg, cardinals pbly come out of the game victorious. the blame goes on the players' abilities to execute. that's y they lost the game, not the playcalling. y not run 2 minutes off the clock and let the chicago offense get on the field? it hasnt been able to do anything all night long. get that playmaking chicago defense off the field. no mistakes and the cardinals would've won. true the playcalling wasn't amazing but hindsight is 20/20.


It wasn't hindsight for me- I was saying it from the second quarter on. There are plenty of things to blame the loss on, and of course it wasn't soley the play calling. But, if they were more aggressive and ran better plays, all of those mistakes you mentioned wouldn't have mattered. Yes, the players have to execute, but the coaches have to put them in the best position to do so, and running into a bunch of pro-bowl defenders with a horrible O-line doesn't accomplish that, IMO.
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Postby PyRo8 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:13 pm

Humpback wrote:
PyRo8 wrote:
Humpback wrote:
J_rob_the_ Baller wrote:anyone else think the cards can chalk up this loss to horrible play calling.

They couldnt run all game, yet how many times on 3rd and 6 or 7 did they try to run the ball. In the red zone, 2 times they ran on 3rd and had to settle for a field goal.

And then in the second half, they went into a conservitive shell and instead of trying to finish off the game and win, they just tried not to lose. Leinert was doing well in the first half, they should have let him loose again in the second half to do his thing.

Yeah, you can blame it on rackers missed FG, but the coaches for arizona should have done a better job of trying to put more points on the board, and then the FG wouldnt have been an issue.


I agree, the playcalling was terrible. Chicago has an awesome D, and they had 8 guys in the box most of the game. Arizona would put out 1 WR sometimes and run right into the middle of the 8 man front. Brilliant! Chicago had a tough time stopping the pass, I don't know why they didn't stay with it more. Get Edge the ball on some sweeps and screens! No one's going to run through 8 of the toughest defensive players in the game. Edge should've had 6 catches this game instead of all those carries. Brutal.


it's easy to say the playcalling was horrible. but in the end, everything worked out the way the coaches wanted it to. if it wasn't for any of these mistakes: leinart fumble, edge fumble, punt return td, rackers missed fg, cardinals pbly come out of the game victorious. the blame goes on the players' abilities to execute. that's y they lost the game, not the playcalling. y not run 2 minutes off the clock and let the chicago offense get on the field? it hasnt been able to do anything all night long. get that playmaking chicago defense off the field. no mistakes and the cardinals would've won. true the playcalling wasn't amazing but hindsight is 20/20.


It wasn't hindsight for me- I was saying it from the second quarter on. There are plenty of things to blame the loss on, and of course it wasn't soley the play calling. But, if they were more aggressive and ran better plays, all of those mistakes you mentioned wouldn't have mattered. Yes, the players have to execute, but the coaches have to put them in the best position to do so, and running into a bunch of pro-bowl defenders with a horrible O-line doesn't accomplish that, IMO.


that's true. but if leniart, edge, the entire punt return team, rackers dont make those mistakes, think it's safe to assume the cardinals would win. the coaching staff didnt put them in the BEST position to win but they did their job and put them in a GOOD position to win the game. it was basically up to the players to go out their and do what they're getting paid to do.
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Postby chadlincoln » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:48 pm

Game highlights in case you missed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbMrFZcwQg8
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:31 pm


J_rob_the_ Baller wrote:
anyone else think the cards can chalk up this loss to horrible play calling.

They couldnt run all game, yet how many times on 3rd and 6 or 7 did they try to run the ball. In the red zone, 2 times they ran on 3rd and had to settle for a field goal.

And then in the second half, they went into a conservitive shell and instead of trying to finish off the game and win, they just tried not to lose. Leinert was doing well in the first half, they should have let him loose again in the second half to do his thing.

Yeah, you can blame it on rackers missed FG, but the coaches for arizona should have done a better job of trying to put more points on the board, and then the FG wouldnt have been an issue.

Humpback wrote:
I agree, the playcalling was terrible. Chicago has an awesome D, and they had 8 guys in the box most of the game. Arizona would put out 1 WR sometimes and run right into the middle of the 8 man front. Brilliant! Chicago had a tough time stopping the pass, I don't know why they didn't stay with it more. Get Edge the ball on some sweeps and screens! No one's going to run through 8 of the toughest defensive players in the game. Edge should've had 6 catches this game instead of all those carries. Brutal.

Pyro8 wrote:
it's easy to say the playcalling was horrible. but in the end, everything worked out the way the coaches wanted it to. if it wasn't for any of these mistakes: leinart fumble, edge fumble, punt return td, rackers missed fg, cardinals pbly come out of the game victorious. the blame goes on the players' abilities to execute. that's y they lost the game, not the playcalling. y not run 2 minutes off the clock and let the chicago offense get on the field? it hasnt been able to do anything all night long. get that playmaking chicago defense off the field. no mistakes and the cardinals would've won. true the playcalling wasn't amazing but hindsight is 20/20.


Humpback wrote:
It wasn't hindsight for me- I was saying it from the second quarter on. There are plenty of things to blame the loss on, and of course it wasn't soley the play calling. But, if they were more aggressive and ran better plays, all of those mistakes you mentioned wouldn't have mattered. Yes, the players have to execute, but the coaches have to put them in the best position to do so, and running into a bunch of pro-bowl defenders with a horrible O-line doesn't accomplish that, IMO.

Pyro8 wrote:
that's true. but if leniart, edge, the entire punt return team, rackers dont make those mistakes, think it's safe to assume the cardinals would win. the coaching staff didnt put them in the BEST position to win but they did their job and put them in a GOOD position to win the game. it was basically up to the players to go out their and do what they're getting paid to do.


Fault here goes to the Cardinals players, not the coaching staff. When the defense isn't giving up anything, going into a shell is the right thing to do... If Leinart throws and it gets picked for a TD, then we all would REALLY be complaining about the playcalling. Coaching staff did the right thing. Remember, the Bears were self-destructive on offense. The Cardinals were in fact better off with the Bears O on the field than the Bears D. In essence, the Cardinals' strategy enabled them to get rid of the ball quicker so they could let the Bears self-destruct. Unfortunately, they were unable to do even this as Edge had a terrible fumble and the punt-team then finished blowing the game....
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Postby Humpback » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:46 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:

J_rob_the_ Baller wrote:
anyone else think the cards can chalk up this loss to horrible play calling.

They couldnt run all game, yet how many times on 3rd and 6 or 7 did they try to run the ball. In the red zone, 2 times they ran on 3rd and had to settle for a field goal.

And then in the second half, they went into a conservitive shell and instead of trying to finish off the game and win, they just tried not to lose. Leinert was doing well in the first half, they should have let him loose again in the second half to do his thing.

Yeah, you can blame it on rackers missed FG, but the coaches for arizona should have done a better job of trying to put more points on the board, and then the FG wouldnt have been an issue.

Humpback wrote:
I agree, the playcalling was terrible. Chicago has an awesome D, and they had 8 guys in the box most of the game. Arizona would put out 1 WR sometimes and run right into the middle of the 8 man front. Brilliant! Chicago had a tough time stopping the pass, I don't know why they didn't stay with it more. Get Edge the ball on some sweeps and screens! No one's going to run through 8 of the toughest defensive players in the game. Edge should've had 6 catches this game instead of all those carries. Brutal.

Pyro8 wrote:
it's easy to say the playcalling was horrible. but in the end, everything worked out the way the coaches wanted it to. if it wasn't for any of these mistakes: leinart fumble, edge fumble, punt return td, rackers missed fg, cardinals pbly come out of the game victorious. the blame goes on the players' abilities to execute. that's y they lost the game, not the playcalling. y not run 2 minutes off the clock and let the chicago offense get on the field? it hasnt been able to do anything all night long. get that playmaking chicago defense off the field. no mistakes and the cardinals would've won. true the playcalling wasn't amazing but hindsight is 20/20.


Humpback wrote:
It wasn't hindsight for me- I was saying it from the second quarter on. There are plenty of things to blame the loss on, and of course it wasn't soley the play calling. But, if they were more aggressive and ran better plays, all of those mistakes you mentioned wouldn't have mattered. Yes, the players have to execute, but the coaches have to put them in the best position to do so, and running into a bunch of pro-bowl defenders with a horrible O-line doesn't accomplish that, IMO.

Pyro8 wrote:
that's true. but if leniart, edge, the entire punt return team, rackers dont make those mistakes, think it's safe to assume the cardinals would win. the coaching staff didnt put them in the BEST position to win but they did their job and put them in a GOOD position to win the game. it was basically up to the players to go out their and do what they're getting paid to do.


Fault here goes to the Cardinals players, not the coaching staff. When the defense isn't giving up anything, going into a shell is the right thing to do... If Leinart throws and it gets picked for a TD, then we all would REALLY be complaining about the playcalling. Coaching staff did the right thing. Remember, the Bears were self-destructive on offense. The Cardinals were in fact better off with the Bears O on the field than the Bears D. In essence, the Cardinals' strategy enabled them to get rid of the ball quicker so they could let the Bears self-destruct. Unfortunately, they were unable to do even this as Edge had a terrible fumble and the punt-team then finished blowing the game....


It's obviously NOT the right thing to do since they lost the game. The Cardinals' strategy enable them to get rid of the ball quicker? That's our point, they should've stuck with the short passes instead of running Edge directly into 10 defenders. That fumble by Edge wasn't terrible- I was surprised it took that long for it to happen. He's constantly hit in the backfield and being held up by defenders, leaving him open to be stipped. It was the Cardinals' who self-destructed, not the Bears.
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:04 pm

It's obviously NOT the right thing to do since they lost the game. The Cardinals' strategy enable them to get rid of the ball quicker? That's our point, they should've stuck with the short passes instead of running Edge directly into 10 defenders. That fumble by Edge wasn't terrible- I was surprised it took that long for it to happen. He's constantly hit in the backfield and being held up by defenders, leaving him open to be stipped. It was the Cardinals' who self-destructed, not the Bears.


It's obviously not the right thing to do since they lost?? So what, we're going to blame every game win or lose on the coaching staff....? Players decide games, not coaches....

Alright, when do you have a greater chance of a turnover, running the ball or passing it?? So far this year, there have been 162 Interceptions and 124 fumbles recovered by the "defensive team"... Included in the fumbles are fumbles by QBs on PASS PLAYS and punt return fumbles. It's quite clear that if you want to hold the ball in football, you run it... What the Cardinals had to do win that game (I think we're all in agreement with this) is simply hold on to the football. Your best chance of holding on to the football and eating clock is running the ball between the tackles.... Why pass when you don't have to?
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Postby PyRo8 » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:51 am

i think humpback was referring to how the cardinals should've passed more. kinda like when leinart dropped bak to pass, got pummelled by a lineman because the offensive line is so garbage, fumbled, and the bears got their first defensive touchdown. i think humpback wanted to see more plays like that.

putting it simply, if the cardinals players did wat they were supposed to do, this conversation would not be going on at all. you can rant all you want about how bad the coaching was but nobody would pay attention to you because they ended up winning. the players simply didnt execute.

the coaching staff put them in a very good opportunity to win the game. the players blew it up for themselves four different times.

you said that it wasnt hindsight that made you put the blame on the coaching staff. i dont know how you felt but from the 2nd quarter on, the bears offense didnt strike me as scary. arizona was more than ready for them (due to the coaching staff + grossman). there was simply nothing wrong with going conservative. the cardinals defense owned that offense for the entire time both units were on the field. why not run time off the clock, then give the ball bak to grossman to make his own dumb mistakes?
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Postby Humpback » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:04 pm

You guys are obviously guru's. I already said the coaches aren't entirely to blame for the loss, of course not. But, how can it be the right thing to do when they lost? Yes, if they got 1 more first down, they probably would've won the game. By running directly into the line, they didn't get the first down and they lost. Even if they passed and it got picked off or he fumbled, they still would've lost- a loss is a loss. Who cares if he got picked off 10 times? They lost because they tried to run the ball to much, so that wasn't the right choice. They still may have lost if they passed more, but it couldn't have been any worse- the worst outcome is a loss.

To say the coaches put them in a very good opportunity to win the game is a joke. How did they even get into FG position? Leinart was 5/6 on the last drive before they ran Edge directly into the line twice. Did the Bears pass defense or run defense look better to you?
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Postby jnjtk555 » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:51 pm

I dont think much of the blame lies with the players as with the coaches, sure hindsight is 20/20 but if something is true it cant be denied. In the first quarter and perhaps once or twice in the 2nd the cards went shotgun and had great success; but i dont recall them once utilizing the formation in the 2nd half, not to mention that while it may have been only 3 or four yards gains; edge was able to get more positive yards from thiss formation than the others. This should have been big X marks the spot for the coaches at half time to continue to spread the bears out and take advantage of this formation. It seems to be a common strategy for many teams in the NFL to sit on a lead; but to come away with 13 points off of 6 turnovers is inexcusable; especially when you are at home. Besides the sack and fumble, i dont recall any pressure that hindered linehart, and certainly not any of consistency that would make the cards change/depart from a strategy that was extremely effective in the first 2 quarters :-t :-t :-t . I dont even remember one playaction pass when they "committed" to the run in the 2nd half :-t :-t :-t
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