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MIKE BELL starter? How bad is Tatum's Injured Toe??

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Postby petedog9 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:03 pm

mattb47 wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:
Flux wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:
awwchrist wrote:And the winners of the mike bell waiver sweepstakes will receive the Steelers in Pitt next week.

:-/


Stiller's just got beat by the Raider's. The freaking RAIDER'S. They're not scaring anyone right now.


Oakland scored no offensive TDs


Who cares? Pittsburgh turned the ball over a lot. They have been turning the ball over a lot the entire season (Big Ben). That right there is going to lead to scoring opportunities. Oakland has proven to have one of the worst offenses in the league, yet they managed to put up 20 on Pittsburgh. And Denver has proven to have one of the BEST rushing offenses in the league. I don't think this is a "bad" matchup for Denver RBs at all.


The fact that Oakland only had 98 net yards on offense against the Steelers does have a bearing on how Mike Bell will perform against them. Yes, they scored 20 pts, but their offense did absolutely nothing. The thing is that although the Steelers have been turning the ball over frequently, they are still #8 in run defense and have only given up 3.4 ypc and only 4 TDs in 7 games on the ground. Regardless of how their offense is performing, that defense is still very stingy against the run.


Kensat, The Oakland Offense did not put 20 on the Steelers, they put up 6.... That six came from field position given to them by field position. The Steelers D is playing great ball, its Ben and his turnovers that are killing them.
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Postby FatFoot » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:30 pm

The Oakland O is still the Oakland O. I haven't been paying the Steelers much attention this year, so looking at NFL.com, here's what the Steelers give a team, this season.

week 1: 36 rushing yards, 262 passing
Ronnie Brown and that O Line suck this year, though.

week 2: 110 rushing yards, 260 passing
Most of the carries were by Freddie. Decent numbers, but no TD.

week 3: 87 rushing yards, 193 passing (with 4 tds)
Mediocre running game, but Cincy's o line hasn't been opening holes well this season.

week 5: 119 rushing yards, 242 passing.
Misleading stats, as they did a great job containing LT.

week 6: 38 rushing yards, 185 passing
This is significant.

week 7: 173 rushing yards, 232 passing
vs the strongest rushing team in the NFL, facing 39 rushing attempts, and after dealing with 4 passing TDs... I think Atlanta simply broke them down. I don't feel these stats are indicative of what one can expect.

week 8: 31 rushing yards, 51 passing.
81 yards, from 29 carries by 4 guys.


I think all of this adds up to "a very good rushing D." Stopping LT and LJ means they know how to gameplan the run. I'm benching Mike Bell this week. Now I have to decide on KJ v Atl, MJD v Ten, Lundy v NYG, or Jamal v Cincy. How the hell did I end up with 7 starting RBs?
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Postby Kensat30 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:31 pm

mattb47 wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:
Flux wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:
awwchrist wrote:And the winners of the mike bell waiver sweepstakes will receive the Steelers in Pitt next week.

:-/


Stiller's just got beat by the Raider's. The freaking RAIDER'S. They're not scaring anyone right now.


Oakland scored no offensive TDs


Who cares? Pittsburgh turned the ball over a lot. They have been turning the ball over a lot the entire season (Big Ben). That right there is going to lead to scoring opportunities. Oakland has proven to have one of the worst offenses in the league, yet they managed to put up 20 on Pittsburgh. And Denver has proven to have one of the BEST rushing offenses in the league. I don't think this is a "bad" matchup for Denver RBs at all.


The fact that Oakland only had 98 net yards on offense against the Steelers does have a bearing on how Mike Bell will perform against them. Yes, they scored 20 pts, but their offense did absolutely nothing. The thing is that although the Steelers have been turning the ball over frequently, they are still #8 in run defense and have only given up 3.4 ypc and only 4 TDs in 7 games on the ground. Regardless of how their offense is performing, that defense is still very stingy against the run.


#8 run defense?

Meet #3 run offense.
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Postby Kensat30 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:34 pm

FatFoot wrote:
week 1: 36 rushing yards 2 rushing TD, 262 passing
Ronnie Brown and that O Line suck this year, though.

week 2: 110 rushing yards, 260 passing
Most of the carries were by Freddie. Decent numbers, but no TD.

week 3: 87 rushing yards, 193 passing (with 4 tds)
Mediocre running game, but Cincy's o line hasn't been opening holes well this season.

week 5: 119 rushing yards, 242 passing.
Misleading stats, as they did a great job containing LT.

week 6: 38 rushing yards, 185 passing
This is significant.

week 7: 173 rushing yards, 232 passing
vs the strongest rushing team in the NFL, facing 39 rushing attempts, and after dealing with 4 passing TDs... I think Atlanta simply broke them down. I don't feel these stats are indicative of what one can expect.

week 8: 31 rushing yards, 51 passing.
81 yards, from 29 carries by 4 guys.


I think all of this adds up to "a very good rushing D." Stopping LT and LJ means they know how to gameplan the run. I'm benching Mike Bell this week. Now I have to decide on KJ v Atl, MJD v Ten, Lundy v NYG, or Jamal v Cincy. How the hell did I end up with 7 starting RBs?


So let's see, the only three weeks were Pittsburgh actually shut someone down was week 1, week6, and week 8.

In week 1, Ronnie Brown scored 2 TDs.
In week 6, Kansas City got blown out 45-7.
In week 8, Pittsburgh LOST to the OAKLAND FREAKING RAIDER's.

Week 9, Mike Bell is a solid start.
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Postby JasonSeahorn » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:57 pm

thing is those ronnie brown TDs were near-goal line runs, you can't be relying on those with your starting rb...if you are, you might as well get brandon jacobs lol
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Postby FatFoot » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:35 pm

Kensat30 wrote:So let's see, the only three weeks were Pittsburgh actually shut someone down was week 1, week6, and week 8.

In week 1, Ronnie Brown scored 2 TDs.
In week 6, Kansas City got blown out 45-7.
In week 8, Pittsburgh LOST to the OAKLAND FREAKING RAIDER's.

Week 9, Mike Bell is a solid start.


I usually agree with you. I don't here. The only really solid week on the ground against the Steelers was by Atlanta, and even they didn't have a starting RB that was really worth starting in that game. The Ronnie Brown stuff was a fluke. The Raiters win was because of turnovers, so it wasn't a question of the Raiders running game scoring points.

The idea is to figure out whether or not Mike Bell will fare well against the Steeler D, not whether Champ will run back a TD. Denver's run D doesn't really have much to do with it either.

I'm still benching Bell. He could have a great game, but it's not the expected result... I think you're underrating the Steeler run D.

And I hate the Steelers.
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Postby Kensat30 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:12 pm

JasonSeahorn wrote:thing is those ronnie brown TDs were near-goal line runs, you can't be relying on those with your starting rb...if you are, you might as well get brandon jacobs lol


Like I said, Big Ben has been a turnover machine.

How do you get the ball in near goalline situations?

#1- you drive the ball there
#2- you get a turnover
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Postby FatFoot » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:14 pm

Yeah, but the numbers don't demonstrate this as an advantage for the RB. It may make the Steelers easier to beat, but they're still shutting people down on the ground. That's the point, innit? Whether or not Mike Bell is a good start against the Steelers? Not whether Ben can lose a game, or whether the Steelers can be beaten.
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Postby Kensat30 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:15 pm

FatFoot wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:So let's see, the only three weeks were Pittsburgh actually shut someone down was week 1, week6, and week 8.

In week 1, Ronnie Brown scored 2 TDs.
In week 6, Kansas City got blown out 45-7.
In week 8, Pittsburgh LOST to the OAKLAND FREAKING RAIDER's.

Week 9, Mike Bell is a solid start.


I usually agree with you. I don't here. The only really solid week on the ground against the Steelers was by Atlanta, and even they didn't have a starting RB that was really worth starting in that game. The Ronnie Brown stuff was a fluke. The Raiters win was because of turnovers, so it wasn't a question of the Raiders running game scoring points.

The idea is to figure out whether or not Mike Bell will fare well against the Steeler D, not whether Champ will run back a TD. Denver's run D doesn't really have much to do with it either.

I'm still benching Bell. He could have a great game, but it's not the expected result... I think you're underrating the Steeler run D.

And I hate the Steelers.


Ben Roethlisberger- 6 games 112/180/1346/6/11, 1 fumble lost

Doing the math for you here:
6 TDs in 6 games, 12 turnovers in 6 games
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Postby Kensat30 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:17 pm

FatFoot wrote:Yeah, but the numbers don't demonstrate this as an advantage for the RB. It may make the Steelers easier to beat, but they're still shutting people down on the ground. That's the point, innit? Whether or not Mike Bell is a good start against the Steelers? Not whether Ben can lose a game, or whether the Steelers can be beaten.


The numbers point to the Denver defense causing some turnovers, which IMO will lead to good field position for the Denver O. My theory is that the #3 ranked rushing offense in the league (Denver) will be able to do some damage against the #8 ranked rushing defense in the league (Pitt).

If you want some statistics to back up this theory, check out Plindsey's defensive formula when it comes out (maybe it has I haven't checked yet). Guarantee you that Denver is ranked in the top5.

Edit: ok they are ranked 8th :-/
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