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Postby J_rob_the_ Baller » Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:11 pm

wow, this has gotten intense.

Well, as a packer fan, am I bitter about the 4th and 26? I was, but I got over it.

Personally, I think McNabb is one of the better QBs in the NFL. He can get it done in the pocket just as well as anyone not named manning or brady. He also is able to run when he needs to, which, btw, he can do better than manning and brady.

He has done more with less than alot of QBs in the NFL. Look at his WRs from 2000-2004. outside of owens, tell me where any of those guys are now.

The fact that he manages to find a different favorite target every game shows that his passing numbers are the result of his talent, not having great WRs. (unlike a certain WB in Miami)

He has good WRs, but not GREAT wrs. Donte stallworth and reggie brown will never be mentioned in the same sentence as guys like Marvin Harrison, reggie wayne, etc. (well, brown is young, so maybe, but you know what I mean)

Anyway, I feel I have made my point. I think it is ignorant to say that McNabb is overrated.
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Postby EagleFan68 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:20 pm

J_rob_the_ Baller wrote:wow, this has gotten intense.

Well, as a packer fan, am I bitter about the 4th and 26? I was, but I got over it.



J_rob,
this was not targetted at you or any of the other Pack fan, just the one that seems to have a total antiEagles bias to the point that it shows his ignorance about football.

To tell you the truth, 4th and 26 means nothing to me as an Eagles fan, because we ended up losing the next game anyway :-t
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Postby Favre.com » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:49 pm

Oh for Christ sake, I don't care about the Eagles nor do I hate them in any way. All the glory McNabb has received just bores me because of his less then stellar throwing abilities. As I stated before, there is a nice handful of QBs I would take over him.

You did not address your silly "most dangerous" comment yet by the way.

Vick has tremendous skill that is still in need to toning because I feel his immaturity gets him into trouble. I think talent-wise he is a top 3 QB, but he makes poor decisions both in forcing throws and running when he feels he can outrun anyone (not always the case). He does this out of frustration. Vick is an unnatural talent that the NFL has arguably never seen before, and his legs and gun for an arm should be used to win games by making the team play around him. Truthfully his O-Line and Back situation (as well as his receivers) are no saviors, but it can be done with proper game plans. Vick has the talent to be much better then McNabb, and he sure as hell would be if you gave him TO/Stallworth/Reggie Brown/Better O-Line/Westbrook etc...
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Postby J_rob_the_ Baller » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:52 pm

EagleFan68 wrote:
J_rob_the_ Baller wrote:wow, this has gotten intense.

Well, as a packer fan, am I bitter about the 4th and 26? I was, but I got over it.



J_rob,
this was not targetted at you or any of the other Pack fan, just the one that seems to have a total antiEagles bias to the point that it shows his ignorance about football.

To tell you the truth, 4th and 26 means nothing to me as an Eagles fan, because we ended up losing the next game anyway :-t


O, i wasnt under the impression that it was aimed at me, i just felt like sticking that in there. Honestly, i am sure every football fan can point to some play that they feel their defense shouldnt have allowed that cost their team the game. That is part of what makes the game exciting, because everyone who might be able to point out a play that cost their team a game can probably also point out a play that their team made that cost another team their game. If they think about it hard enough.

Anyway, that is a bit of a rant.....

I have no problem with the eagles right now. I am not a fan, but i dont have anything against them. I have been a football fan long enough not to let personal opinions affect my judgement of individual players.

Anyone who can say that they wouldnt put McNabb up there with the top QBs is either letting personal opinions cloud their judgement, or does not really know what they are talking about.

But, like everything else on this forum, that is my OPINION, and you know what they say, opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one.

I personally believe that mcNabb is a future hall of fame QB. Maybe not a first balloter, but a superbowl could change that.
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Postby EagleFan68 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:21 pm

Favre.com wrote: Oh for Christ sake, I don't care about the Eagles nor do I hate them in any way. All the glory McNabb has received just bores me because of his less then stellar throwing abilities. As I stated before, there is a nice handful of QBs I would take over him.

You did not address your silly "most dangerous" comment yet by the way.


I did, you said :
Favre.com wrote:Potential cannot be measured either so lets not use the arguement of "Dangerous means potentially good instead of good". First off anyone "potentially" can be the best (Tatum Bell can have the same arguement as Westbrook), but potential cannot be measured, and I don't care about what a player "could do", I care about what he DOES.


I gave stats to back up that Westbrook is dangerous AND good.
Stats are facts, based on performance, NOT POTENTIAL


Favre.com wrote:Vick is an unnatural talent that the NFL has arguably never seen before, and his legs and gun for an arm should be used to win games by making the team play around him


I guess you never saw a guy named Randall Cunningham, huh ?

Favre.com wrote:Vick has the talent to be much better then McNabb, and he sure as hell would be if you gave him TO/Stallworth/Reggie Brown/Better O-Line/Westbrook etc...



You can't be serious?
Can you?

Vick couldn't read a defense if they told him what coverage the were going to be before the play started.
You could give him T.O., Harrison, Jerry Rice and Steve Smith, he would still only run or throw it to the TE.
Yes I use facts again,
Crumpler has caught 30% of all of Vick's career completions
Crumpler has caught 45% of all of Vick's career TD passes.


Vick has had about equal talent surrounding him as McNabb has had. The Difference?

McNabb 71 wins 10.1 wins per season avg
Vick 40 wins 8 wins per season avg


McNabb 174 total TDs 21.75 TDs a year(includes rushing TDs)
Vick 82 total TDs 13.6 Total Tds a year(includes rushing TDs)

McNabb 21,745 pass yds 2,718 yds per year avg
Vick 10,230 pass yds 1,705 yds per year avg

McNabb 71 INTs 8.87 INTs per year avg
Averages an INT every 45 attempts

Vick 44 INTs 7.73 INTs per year avg
averages an INT every 34 attempts

McNabb 57 Fumbles 7.12 Fumbles avg per year
Vick 52 fumbles 8.6 Fumbles avg per year

McNabb 339 rushing yards per year avg.
Vick 552 rushing yards per year avg.


Vick is a HORRIBLE QB, but a tremendous athlete.

His passing success ONLY comes when he makes the defense break down because he gets out of the pocket. He is too dumb to be a legitimate NFL QB. As soon as his first look is covered he starts to take off.

As soon as Vick loses a step his career is over.

With every post you just make yourself out to be dumber and dumber about your football knowledge.

Once again I back my statements with FACTS not opinion

And I may say once again,

YOU HAVE BEEN
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[b]RBs[/b] R BROWN / WESTBROOK (R BUSH / MCGAHEE / L BETTS / D WILLIAMS )
[b]WRs[/b] ROY WILLIAMS / T OWENS / A JOHNSON / BERRIAN
[b]TE[/b] WITTEN / WATSON
[b]K[/b] GRAHAM
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Postby Favre.com » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:49 pm

I don't have a lot of time to respond now but I'll make the hjist of your post seem foolish while I'm here. The fact of the matter is that I use common sense while you use situational facts. The reason Vick throws to his TE is because Crumpler is the only proven talent he has. I don't know whats so damn hard to understand, give me Tony G and HS WR and as the QB I'll only throw to Tony G. Its the same game here. He has confidence in Crumpler because he has garbage receivers so he throws to Crumpler most of the time.

Now lets look at another issue, the fact that you completely lied (or simply forgot) about what I said. If you read it (and you even quoted it) again, you will notice that I say Vick can/will be better then McNabb. Never said he was now. I will take McNabb 365 days a year over Vick as of right now, but with Vick maturing and (hopefully) getting better receivers in the future he has a good shot to beat out McNabb.

Third of all, no, you never addressed your little "Westbrook is not the second best RB but the second most dangerous". You have had multiple people on here tell you thats BS and you still haven't answered what the hell the difference between "best" and "dangerous" is.

Lastly, I will gladly be back tommorow with more time to dig up some stats (not about Vick, as I have already said you simply didn't understand what I said about Vick), but about McNabb in general. But for now, if you wanna talk shit about me being some "dumbo" or whatever it is you said thats all good and great but I've kinda been around the fantasy world for a while and if you go to this link: http://football35.myfantasyleague.com/2006/home/71790 , you should see the "knowledge" you speak of that I guess I "lack" (My team is QB Club 101, we have double headers)...
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Postby Thursday » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:14 am

Wow. I was going to come in this thread and state how much i like Torry Holt, because he produces very well and doesn't ever say much. But instead i'll back away from the Vick-McNabb war.
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Postby Shea-bird » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:16 am

haha i was gonna put together an argument for Westbrook, but its already been done nicely by a few, so i'll add a few things...

and the first poster...to say westbrook is overrated?!! haha what a joke...

he's one of the most talented players in the NFL, not to mention his numbers speak for themselves...he's a rb that averages over 5 yards a carry, and over 10 a reception...put that together with the relatively few touches he gets in comparison with other backs and you have an underrated star back...

now if only reid would give him the ball more...
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Postby EagleFan68 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:13 am

Favre.com wrote:I don't have a lot of time to respond now but I'll make the hjist of your post seem foolish while I'm here. The fact of the matter is that I use common sense while you use situational facts. The reason Vick throws to his TE is because Crumpler is the only proven talent he has. I don't know whats so damn hard to understand, give me Tony G and HS WR and as the QB I'll only throw to Tony G. Its the same game here. He has confidence in Crumpler because he has garbage receivers so he throws to Crumpler most of the time.


Now lets look at another issue, the fact that you completely lied (or simply forgot) about what I said. If you read it (and you even quoted it) again, you will notice that I say Vick can/will be better then McNabb. Never said he was now. I will take McNabb 365 days a year over Vick as of right now, but with Vick maturing and (hopefully) getting better receivers in the future he has a good shot to beat out McNabb.


And in his first 5 years McNabb had the same quality talent and he reached the NFC title game 3 times, won more playoff games, threw more TDs and less interceptions and rushed for almost as many yards.

Proving that
1) he matured and developed into a "QB" faster
2) He can do much more without a supporting cast than Vick can
3) McNabb has never relied on one guy(except for the T.O. year), he spreads the ball around more than any QB not named Tom Brady. That is another indication of his talent, he makes ALL the players on his team play better. Vick has been playing 5 years and he STILLdoesn't spread the ball around. It's one look, then take off, if he sees someone open when he's running then he'll throw it(usually to Crumpler)

Favre.com wrote:
Third of all, no, you never addressed your little "Westbrook is not the second best RB but the second most dangerous". You have had multiple people on here tell you thats BS and you still haven't answered what the hell the difference between "best" and "dangerous" is.


I did address it, I posted stats that back up my argument.
You said dangerous means potential, and potential doesn't mean good, so I showed you how good he is. And yes he is the most dangerous RB in the league outside of LT, outside of LT he creates more mismatches that make him one of the most successful RBs in the league. His game is more than just a RB that carries the ball.

I haven't seen ANY FACTUAL EVIDENCE OR STATS that back up anything you say. I backed up my Westbrook argument and the McNabb stats I posted blow away the Vick argument.

Get back to me when you have some actual concrete facts to back up your argument

Til then
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[b]WRs[/b] ROY WILLIAMS / T OWENS / A JOHNSON / BERRIAN
[b]TE[/b] WITTEN / WATSON
[b]K[/b] GRAHAM
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Postby beanoX3 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:14 am

Wow, this McNabb Vick Westbrook thing is getting pretty wild. Kinda knew this thread could turn into a flame war. Now we've got pictures too.
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