Toys for Tots - Christ Not Welcome For Christmas - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to General Talk

Toys for Tots - Christ Not Welcome For Christmas

Moderator: Football Moderators

Postby knapplc » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:13 pm

gablefan wrote:
knapplc wrote:[This is the part of the conversation where I challenge anyone to find the verse in the Bible where Jesus condemns homosexuality.

If that's found I say we continue discussing the topic of Christians and homosexuals. If it's not, I would kindly suggest that we remove this topic from a discussion on what's right and wrong from a Christian perspective.

:-)


We can drop the homosexuality issue if you like, but was Sodom and Gomorrah not desrtoyed because of the lewd sexual nature including homosexuality?

Sodom was, which is where we get the term "sodomy." However, Christ made a New Covenant with us, Jews and Gentiles alike, that replaced the previous covenants God had given to the Children of Israel alone. It's pretty tricky to go back to Old Testament covenants and start finding fault with current events.

I like to go by the WWJD maxim. I find it keeps me out of trouble a lot. :-b
Image
How 'bout them Huskers!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerGolden Eagle EyeCafe MusketeerCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 18961
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's an L, not an I

Postby m16a » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:15 pm

First off, Chanukah is the holiday where dreidels are spun. I'm Jewish so I've done it lol. Second of all, I think its horrible that Christmas has shied away from its original meaning. So the denying of the giving of some Jesus dolls in my opinion is out right disgusting. Thirdly, Gable you are right about Sodom and Gammorah being destroyed for that reason and others as well. Also, Knapp i can't quote it off the top of my head, but given time i can get you a verse in the Bible that speaks about homosexuality. There are a number that speaks against it. It says something about a man going away from his family and becoming one with a women. Something like that. There are others. It's an implied thing not a directly spoken of thing. I can make a promise to PM you a number of the once i find there references Knapp. Thats all the m16a has to say. Thats my opinion.
Jason
Last edited by m16a on Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Props to Deluxe for the sig
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.
- Goethe
m16a
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 5361
(Past Year: 47)
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Somewhere in PA

Postby Redskins Win » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:15 pm

josebach wrote:
knapplc wrote:
Atog wrote:
knapplc wrote:
Atog wrote:I pretty much agree with the Marines here--the Marines are not a program with a religious agenda.

How would we react if UNICEF gave out Muhammad dolls to impoverished Americans? We'd be outraged.
(Note: I know that a Muhammad doll would be blasphemous to Muslims, but I'm just making a point here.)

Comparing apples to apples, I can't imagine why anyone would be outraged if UNICEF gave children celebrating a Muslim holiday a Muslim toy. That simply doesn't make any sense.

Would we be upset if UNICEF gave out dradles to children celebrating Yom Kippur? Of course not - the assumption would be that those children are Jewish, else why would they celebrate a Jewish holiday?

I'm sorry, but the argument for non-Christians celebrating a Christian holiday is simply absurd.


Toys for Tots isn't an organization purely for the benefit of Christians, even if it's something based around Christmas. Back to our analogy, it's like if UNICEF were giving out Dradles to all kids, not just Jewish kids.


No, it's not, because only Jewish kids celebrate Yom Kippur/Hanukkah (I think Redskins is right – I think it’s Hanukkah where you spin the dradle). If a kid is celebrating CHRISTmas, a CHRISTian holiday, they should be CHRISTian.

Your whole point relies on the fact that CHRISTmas is a secular holiday, which everyone could/should celebrate. It is not. It is a CHRISTian holiday.

Let’s be honest here – I’m not about to go marching through the streets with my banner denouncing non-Christians for celebrating Christmas. ALL I’M TRYING TO SAY is that it is what it is – a holiday celebrating one of the most special events in Christian theology. And to me, it’s very odd that people who are not Christians would choose to celebrate that.


The more I think about it, the more I really agree with Knapplc here. You know non-Christians have been gradually secularizing society. In some cases, I'm adamantly in agreement with it, but this is CHRISTMAS!!!! How can you secularize Christmas? If you have a problem with Jesus being talked about during Christmas, DON'T CELEBRATE!!! If you're not a Christian and you choose to celebrate Christmas, that's fine, but that also means you should respect the true meaning of the holiday. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Christians have given a lot in a lot of different areas and I don't think this is one they should have to give on.


saddly you've all moved off topic and personalized this. it's not about secularization of christmas gays in the church, acid rain, cornuts, draddles, unicef, it's about toys for tots not giving talking jesus dolls out. so discuss that. personally I'm all for it. if they don't want to hand out jesus dolls that's fine by me, they'll have plenty other things to hand out.
Image[/quote]
[size=14][b]Letters from the procupine, they'll stick straight through you.
So read one anytime you think you've made mistakes.[/b][/size]
Redskins Win
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Mock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 8272
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby knapplc » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:19 pm

m16a wrote:First off, Chanukah is the holiday where dreidels are spun. I'm Jewish so I've done it lol. Second of all, I think its horrible that Christmas has shied away from its original meaning. So the denying of the giving of some Jesus dolls in my opinion is out right disgusting. Thirdly, Gable you are right about Sodom and Gammorah being destroyed for that reason. Also, Knapp i can's quote it off the top of my head, but given time i can get you a verse in the Bible that speaks about homosexuality. There are a number that speaks against it. It says something about a man going away from his family and becoming one with a women. Something like that. There are others. It's an implied thing not a directly spoken of thing. I can make a promise to PM you a number of the once i find there references Knapp. Thats all the m16a has to say. Thats my opinion.
Jason

Old or New Testament? Who said it? Those are very important points, you know. ;-)
Image
How 'bout them Huskers!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerGolden Eagle EyeCafe MusketeerCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 18961
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's an L, not an I

Postby josebach » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:19 pm

Redskins Win wrote:saddly you've all moved off topic and personalized this. it's not about secularization of christmas gays in the church, acid rain, cornuts, draddles, unicef, it's about toys for tots not giving talking jesus dolls out. so discuss that. personally I'm all for it. if they don't want to hand out jesus dolls that's fine by me, they'll have plenty other things to hand out.


Toys for Tots refusing to give Jesus dolls as Christmas gifts isn't secularizing Christmas?

me confused! :*)
josebach
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe Ranker
Posts: 4611
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Tallahassee, FL

Postby gablefan » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:20 pm

josebach wrote:
Redskins Win wrote:saddly you've all moved off topic and personalized this. it's not about secularization of christmas gays in the church, acid rain, cornuts, draddles, unicef, it's about toys for tots not giving talking jesus dolls out. so discuss that. personally I'm all for it. if they don't want to hand out jesus dolls that's fine by me, they'll have plenty other things to hand out.


Toys for Tots refusing to give Jesus dolls as Christmas gifts isn't secularizing Christmas?

me confused! :*)


I agree with Jose! :-?
Image
gablefan
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Sweet 16 SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 1560
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: TN

Postby josebach » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:23 pm

gablefan wrote:
josebach wrote:
Redskins Win wrote:saddly you've all moved off topic and personalized this. it's not about secularization of christmas gays in the church, acid rain, cornuts, draddles, unicef, it's about toys for tots not giving talking jesus dolls out. so discuss that. personally I'm all for it. if they don't want to hand out jesus dolls that's fine by me, they'll have plenty other things to hand out.


Toys for Tots refusing to give Jesus dolls as Christmas gifts isn't secularizing Christmas?

me confused! :*)


I agree with Jose! :-?


See, just a few posts ago I was shocked at something you said and now we're in total agreement? Isn't the world an interesting place? :-b

I do like this forum.
josebach
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe Ranker
Posts: 4611
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Tallahassee, FL

Postby gablefan » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:35 pm

I think the key to this place is not taking offense at another persons viewpoints. Respect them, have your own, but don't take offense because someone believes differently. I don't take offense to very many things. I can be quite civil in my disagreements. Glad most people around here are too!
Image
gablefan
Head Coach
Head Coach

User avatar
Sweet 16 SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 1560
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: TN

Postby josebach » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:39 pm

gablefan wrote:I think the key to this place is not taking offense at another persons viewpoints. Respect them, have your own, but don't take offense because someone believes differently.


Image

Respec


Ali G is funny!
josebach
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe Ranker
Posts: 4611
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Tallahassee, FL

Postby mattb47 » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:28 pm

knapplc wrote:
m16a wrote:First off, Chanukah is the holiday where dreidels are spun. I'm Jewish so I've done it lol. Second of all, I think its horrible that Christmas has shied away from its original meaning. So the denying of the giving of some Jesus dolls in my opinion is out right disgusting. Thirdly, Gable you are right about Sodom and Gammorah being destroyed for that reason. Also, Knapp i can's quote it off the top of my head, but given time i can get you a verse in the Bible that speaks about homosexuality. There are a number that speaks against it. It says something about a man going away from his family and becoming one with a women. Something like that. There are others. It's an implied thing not a directly spoken of thing. I can make a promise to PM you a number of the once i find there references Knapp. Thats all the m16a has to say. Thats my opinion.
Jason

Old or New Testament? Who said it? Those are very important points, you know. ;-)


Sure, there is a new covanent given in the New Testament, but it doesn't mean that all things said in the Old Testament are thrown out the window.

And check out 1 Corinthians 6:9-10:

v9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, v10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I found this on particular translation from the NET Bible which you can find online so feel free to look it up if need be.

If you want more look at Romans 1:26-27, 1 Timothy 1:10, and Jude 1:7 (references Sodom and Gomorrah in this verse).

I apologize for taking this offtrack, but I actually do go to a Christian college in Indiana and I couldn't let knapplc get away with what he was saying without some sort of refutation here.

We definitely do not need to pursue this discussion any further, just thought I would accept his challenge to find a verse in the NT that speaks against homosexuality. Just for the record I do not dislike homosexuals, I have some friends who are and I have a very good relationship with them. Sorry to take this in such a deeper religious direction.....
Image
mattb47
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 14238
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Home Cafe: Football

PreviousNext

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 5:02 hours
(and 44 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact