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Lame cuddling the QB penalties finally cost someone a game..

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Postby Cowboys 4 life » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:42 pm

Didn't see the game but am happy the Giants lost.


If it happened the way Bagel said then it sucks to lose that way. What can a D lineman can do anymore? I can see them wanting to protect the qb but there has to be a line where it is a sack and the play stops.

I think the rules need to be adjusted a bit to allow the D lineman a sack when a qb is wrapped up. You can't just allow something like this to happen.

I saw the same type of thing happen earlier in the year when the Colts played NE. Tom Brady was wrapped up by a Colts D lineman who instead of running him to the ground let him go thinking it was a sack. Tom Brady rolls out and completes a 20 yarder.

If a QB is wrapped it should be a sack. Thats how you protect them. Don't over protect them to a point where it starts costing teams the game.
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Postby The Lung » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:05 pm

LukeW9027 wrote:But for this specific specific situation with Kiwi, I think that he though Vince had already thrown the ball so he gave up. VY gave a pump fake while in the grasp so i think he thought the ball had been thrown. The reason why i think this is because as soon as he let go of VY, he looked instantly to the left side, which was opposite of where VY was running to.


Exactly. In general, I too am concerned with too much caution in the league with protecting the quarterback. But I don't think it had anything to do with this specific case. I think Kiwi simply thought Vince had gotten rid of the ball.
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Postby NittanyLions » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:06 am

I agree about this incident, but it has become a problem. They need to lay off of it a little bit, it's starting to hurt the game and getting very sticky. I remember the Browns game last week. Actually probably costed the Brownies the game. Ben looked like he would be sacked, but I think it was Wimbley who put a little hit into him but then pulled back and put up his hands. Of course Ben was too strong and stumbled, got his balance, scrambled to the side and completed a big 1st down. It was going to be a huge loss and probably would've ruined the drive.
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Postby pimpforalivin » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:22 am

Some of you are reading too much into it. Kiwanuka thought Young had gotten rid of the ball, and let up. That's all there is to it. I believe Kiwanuka also had his head down during the "tackle" as well, which probably had nothing to do with it, but could have.
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:59 am

Eventually the NFL is going to pansify to the point where QB is going to be a two-hand touch position.....

Obvious roughing of the QB (for instance, the first play on VY when he got NAILED out of bounds) should stay... but much of roughing the passer needs to go..

The new "no hitting below the knees" rule

No "hitting the helmet" (I understand helmet-to-helmet; that should be a foul, but hand to the helmet, COME ON, it doesn't do ANYTHING to hurt the QB...)

The "landing on the QB with full weight" rule on a sack.. again, COME ON!!!! THe guy is just trying to make a tackle....

Also, in the grasp is just annoying; when is the QB and when is the QB not down???
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Postby VY » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:47 am

That didn't cost them the game, allowing 24 points in the fourth quarter did.

Kiwi quit and let go. Simple as that. The refs yell when the ball is gone so the player knows to let go. Kiwi just did not finish becuase he is an idiot.
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Postby jmog » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:38 am

NittanyLions wrote:I agree about this incident, but it has become a problem. They need to lay off of it a little bit, it's starting to hurt the game and getting very sticky. I remember the Browns game last week. Actually probably costed the Brownies the game. Ben looked like he would be sacked, but I think it was Wimbley who put a little hit into him but then pulled back and put up his hands. Of course Ben was too strong and stumbled, got his balance, scrambled to the side and completed a big 1st down. It was going to be a huge loss and probably would've ruined the drive.


As a Browns fan, that play is the one that made me be 100% "turned off" by the NFL this year.

It would have been 3rd and 20 instead of 1st and 10.

Same thing in the NYG/TEN game yesterday, that play actually might have cost me my fantasy game as well. Because if that sack goes down then Eli doesn't lose the game at the end and cost me 3 more points for the INT.

This crap about getting 15 yarders and fined for hitting the QB in any fashion is ruining the NFL.

I 100% understand not allowing leading with your head, forearms to the head, etc. But when you get to the point that lineman and LBs have to pull up letting the QB spin out and get a 1st down that would have never happened if the defender could just hit the QB, then the game is ruined.
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Postby beanoX3 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:50 am

We can point out a lot of times where dumb penalties were called for roughing the passer when it wasn't really warranted, but there are plenty of calls that don't get called where the QB gets clobbered and we rarely talk about it. A week or two or three ago, Kitna got nailed so hard that it was one of them classic blindside hits where his feet go flying in the air and he spins and lands on his back. No roughing called there and that hit made the "Jacked Up!" segment on ESPN.

Lots of QB's get hit pretty hard nowadays, it's just no one makes a fuss about them. What the refs need is consistency in their calls, because one ref will call roughing for pushing the QB, while another ref doesn't care that the defender just planted his helmet into the QBs chest and threw him into the turf.

However, I can understand when a call is made for below the knees hits or helmet to helmet while in the pocket. Those need to be called no matter how benign the hit looked. But if a defender half-@sses it because he's afraid of drawing a penalty, then his coaches need to draw up some practice drills on how to hit the QB in accordance with the new QB protection rules.
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Postby Hermesz1 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:06 am

I watched the Steelers/Ravens game yesterday.

Let me assure you that defensive players can still hit the QB in the NFL.

Rothlisberger didn't "just fall down" 9 times. He's a big dude, and the Ravens were smashing him.
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:19 am

Honestly, if I was a QB coach in the NFL, I'd tell my QB to make sure he pump fakes before he goes down... the defender has to stop for a second to make sure he doesn't "rough the passer" and if he "fumbles" he has the crappy tuck rule there to protect him..

Roughing the passer is a NEEDED penalty, but it should only be called when NEEDED.

Oh, and as an aside, another AWFUL touching the QB penalty was called on the GB guy toinght (where his hand accidentally might have touched Hasslebeck's helmet, because Hasslebeck turned....). That penalty was the turning point in the football game.

Sad, just sad... and really really frustrating to watch.
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