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Cops shoot 50 rounds into car, kill unarmed groom

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Cops shoot 50 rounds into car, kill unarmed groom

Postby Matthias » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:55 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/26/nyc.shooting.ap/

On initial reports, sounds like the same as the tasering issue. Maybe these guys were acting like idiots, but at some point you have to hit the pause button. And people wonder why people don't trust the police.
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Re: Cops shoot 50 rounds into car, kill unarmed groom

Postby knapplc » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:03 pm

Matthias wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/26/nyc.shooting.ap/

On initial reports, sounds like the same as the tasering issue. Maybe these guys were acting like idiots, but at some point you have to hit the pause button. And people wonder why people don't trust the police.


Taser = nonlethal control device.
Bullet = gonna kill you just about any way you slice it.

I'm not seeing these as "equal" issues. :-b




All things considered, I think we're going to be seeing some cops going to jail. I can't imagine how you can explain the fact that they shot 50 TIMES into this car. From one report I heard, one cop emptied TWO CLIPS into this car. Imagine that - the guy emptied his clip, reloaded, emptied ANOTHER clip, reloaded, and fired some more. At NO TIME did anyone in the car fire back (most likely because they didn't have a gun, but let's not quibble).

I don't care what the explanation from the cops is. There is NO WAY to justify this one. 8-o
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Postby Madison » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:57 pm

23-year-old Sean Bell was supposed to have married the mother of his two young children,


Marriage THEN children, not the other way around dummy.

"We've got to understand that all of us were in that car."



Musta been a HUGE car! 8-o

The shootings occurred at about 4 a.m. Saturday outside the Kalua Cabaret, a strip club where Bell's bachelor party was held.



Our clubs close at 2. Lucky guys. :-[

[quote]The car, driven by Bell, was struck by 21 of the police bullets after the vehicle rammed an undercover officer and hit an unmarked NYPD minivan.[/quote]

Only 21 of the 50 shots hit the car? 8-o

Rammed an officer and hit an unmarked van, or was the undercover officer in the unmarked van? :-? (Edit: answered further down in the article).

Other shots hit nearby homes and shattered windows at a train station, though no one else was injured.


Those officers are horrible shots. 42% hit rate on the car and the rest went that stray? Yikes! :-o

An undercover officer walked closely behind Bell and his friends as they headed for their car. As he walked toward the front of the vehicle, the car drove forward -- striking the officer and a nearby undercover police vehicle, Kelly said.

The officer who had followed the group on foot was apparently the first to open fire, Kelly said. That officer had served on the force for five years. One 12-year veteran fired his weapon 31 times, emptying two full magazines, Kelly said.

Bell backed the car onto a sidewalk, hitting a building gate, authorities said. He then drove forward, striking the police vehicle a second time, Kelly said.



Can kinda see how this got started. However.......

"Police officers shall not discharge their firearms at or from a moving vehicle unless deadly force is being used against the police officers or another person present, by means other than a moving vehicle."


They are toast.

No clue why they fired 50 times, but between the number of shots and breaking the rule I just quoted, they should be all done as police officers. Well beyond the line to say the least. 8-o
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Postby knapplc » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:02 pm

I didn't see that they only hit 21 of 50 shots. I'm thinking we may be finding out that the officers in question had been drinking.
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Re: Cops shoot 50 rounds into car, kill unarmed groom

Postby lmcjaho » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:13 pm

Matthias wrote:On initial reports, sounds like the same as the tasering issue. Maybe these guys were acting like idiots, but at some point you have to hit the pause button. And people wonder why people don't trust the police.


Hmmm, 4 guys talking about a gun outside a strip club at 4am and then they try to run over a cop with their car and they get shot at... Yup, sounds to me like a reason for your average joe to distrust the police alright Image

Too bad in Matthias' America the only ones Innocent Until Proven Guilty are the criminals - guess it's asking too much for the cops to get the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are available...
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Re: Cops shoot 50 rounds into car, kill unarmed groom

Postby Matthias » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:28 pm

lmcjaho wrote:
Matthias wrote:On initial reports, sounds like the same as the tasering issue. Maybe these guys were acting like idiots, but at some point you have to hit the pause button. And people wonder why people don't trust the police.


Hmmm, 4 guys talking about a gun outside a strip club at 4am and then they try to run over a cop with their car and they get shot at... Yup, sounds to me like a reason for your average joe to distrust the police alright Image

Too bad in Matthias' America the only ones Innocent Until Proven Guilty are the criminals - guess it's asking too much for the cops to get the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are available...
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Dude, the cops shot fifty times, one cop unloading two magazines, at three guys who were unarmed. What exact benefit of the doubt are you looking for? I'm giving the cops the benefit of the doubt that they were just insanely reckless, overeager, and got caught up in things rather than being drunk or coked up.

Could you imagine if this had been the other way around? Some cops ram into a car and the guy and his friends shoot it up (and the surrounding neighborhood)? The cops would be going ape-****. And don't feed me a line about how these were cops, they had to defend themselves. They were in plainclothes, undercover. There has been nothing to suggest that they identified themselves as police to make themselves a target before they started the bullet hailstorm.

I mean, really.... what are you looking for? Jesus, Joseph, Mary, I didn't even say originally that the cops were wrong to shoot once. I said at some point you have to hit the pause button. That when you're emptying out your guns, maybe you should see if the person you're shooting at is a threat. And yah, this is why people don't trust the police. This is EXACTLY why. You read a story about five cops who got trigger-happy and killed a groom the day of his wedding and he and his friends were unarmed? Believe you me, that doesn't help the reputation of the boys in blue. To say anything else is simply ignorant.

So don't give me this smug, "You only love the criminals" bull. Let's just talk about facts, Jack.
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Re: Cops shoot 50 rounds into car, kill unarmed groom

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:07 pm

Matthias wrote:And yah, this is why people don't trust the police.


Since when do 'people' not trust police? Earlier in my young life I gave the cops every good reason to hate me, but I certainly hold them in high regard now. If you don't trust cops you're either paranoid or you're hiding something. There are currupt cops, I'll give you that, but for every one currupt officer there are a thousand that excemplify (sp?) what it means to wear a badge.

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Postby Matthias » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:37 pm

People don't trust the police since they started shooting up unarmed civilians.

Seriously, though, you want me to pull up case after case of corrupt police officers? Or every instance where a police officer has behaved badly? You do realize that the UCLA taser incident was the third case in that single week in Los Angeles where police officers were video taped being possibly too rough with someone? Three times. One city. One week. On tape. How many go untaped and unknown?

No job position is immune from bad employees. Not police. Not construction workers. Not CEOs. Not anyone. I don't have anything to hide, but I'm not giving anyone a pass because of their job title, either.

The people who really get my respect are those who get none from anybody else. The taxi drivers. The cleaning ladies. The line chef. The guy selling newspapers. That's a hard damned life. And most of them bust their hump doing it. And they don't get any special night at Yankee Stadium, either. Instead, they're the ones cleaning it out once the party is all over.
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:00 pm

Matthias wrote:People don't trust the police since they started shooting up unarmed civilians.

Seriously, though, you want me to pull up case after case of corrupt police officers? Or every instance where a police officer has behaved badly? You do realize that the UCLA taser incident was the third case in that single week in Los Angeles where police officers were video taped being possibly too rough with someone? Three times. One city. One week. On tape. How many go untaped and unknown?


I think it's safe to say there are a few instances where a cop does his job as it's supposed to be done and this doesn't get recorded either, neither on video or paper. You are choosing to focus on the bad apples. I'm sure I can google up a few stories about 'currupt' taxi drivers too. Doesn't mean I shouldn't trust one. Bad cops get a lot of publicity because they're supposed to be good guys, and most are.

I think you could word your assumption a little differently. Instead of "People don't trust the police since they started shooting up unarmed civilians.", you should add "A few..." in front of "people". This would be more accurate.

If you were being mugged would you rather have your trustworthy hotel maid next to you or a police officer?
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Postby lmcjaho » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:31 pm

Omaha Red Sox wrote:If you were being mugged would you rather have your trustworthy hotel maid next to you or a police officer?


Matthias would rather give the criminal his wallet, his keys, and his PINs for all his debit cards than have a cop on the scene apparently...
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