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Commish Duties

Postby mcmill3 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:33 am

Our Commish sent this out this morning, wanted to get your take on the tie breaker rationale. We have three divisions, each comprised of 4 teams. Does this formula jive when a tie is involved?

If there is a tie between two teams for either the division
or a wild card..the tiebreaker will be head to head, then
division record, then if the two teams are still tied then
it goes to most points...Thanks and good luck to everyone in
the final regular season week
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Postby dream_017 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:23 am

That is how I like to have the tiebreaker. There are many that disagree, here are some previous threads:

One I started at the begining of last season

another one

yet another

one more

last one
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Postby Matthias » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:51 am

That jives. It's definitely a common way to resolve ties.

I don't like it since I don't know what kind of meaning a H2H game has for fantasy football; it's not like you're playing basketball 1-on-1 or even college football BCS kind of thing. You're always trying to maximize your points (with a small wrinkle for handcuffing when you think you have a big lead) but the fact that someone else scored 125 points the week you played them and you scored 110... it's completely meaningless. I would say the best tiebreaker is most points for and second tiebreaker to be most points scored against (since you'd have a better record if people didn't go house on you all the time, assumedly).

But if you're just asking if your commish's proposal is acceptable? Yah. It's common. I wouldn't raise a stink about it.
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Re: Commish Duties

Postby Twisted Sister » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:22 am

mcmill3 wrote:Our Commish sent this out this morning, wanted to get your take on the tie breaker rationale. We have three divisions, each comprised of 4 teams. Does this formula jive when a tie is involved?

If there is a tie between two teams for either the division
or a wild card..the tiebreaker will be head to head, then
division record, then if the two teams are still tied then
it goes to most points...Thanks and good luck to everyone in
the final regular season week


More or less, it's pretty standard. No reason to fuss.
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Postby beanoX3 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:53 am

Matthias wrote:That jives. It's definitely a common way to resolve ties.

I don't like it since I don't know what kind of meaning a H2H game has for fantasy football; it's not like you're playing basketball 1-on-1 or even college football BCS kind of thing. You're always trying to maximize your points (with a small wrinkle for handcuffing when you think you have a big lead) but the fact that someone else scored 125 points the week you played them and you scored 110... it's completely meaningless. I would say the best tiebreaker is most points for and second tiebreaker to be most points scored against (since you'd have a better record if people didn't go house on you all the time, assumedly).

But if you're just asking if your commish's proposal is acceptable? Yah. It's common. I wouldn't raise a stink about it.

Doesn't head to head just mean what the record is between the two teams when they played each other? Like say my team A plays someone's team B twice during the regular season, but we end up with the same record, tied for the division crown in the end. But during the season, my team A had beaten his team B twice, so team A wins the head to head tie-breaker.
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Postby Matthias » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:02 am

beanoX3 wrote:
Matthias wrote:That jives. It's definitely a common way to resolve ties.

I don't like it since I don't know what kind of meaning a H2H game has for fantasy football; it's not like you're playing basketball 1-on-1 or even college football BCS kind of thing.

Doesn't head to head just mean what the record is between the two teams when they played each other? Like say my team A plays someone's team B twice during the regular season, but we end up with the same record, tied for the division crown in the end. But during the season, my team A had beaten his team B twice, so team A wins the head to head tie-breaker.


That's what it is but really, what does it mean?

In real life sports, if two teams play each other, they're both playing offense, they're both playing defense, and they both are adjusting their game based on the score at any given point. But in fantasy sports... you're just trying to score the most points. Period. So the idea that Team A beat Team B twice but they still ended up with the same record.... so what? Did Team A adjust their roster for the week he played Team B? Did he have any impact on Team B's points?

As I said, all you're trying to do is score the most points every week. Which is why I think who scored the most points over the course of a season to be a better measure.
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Postby beanoX3 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:04 pm

Matthias wrote:That's what it is but really, what does it mean?

In real life sports, if two teams play each other, they're both playing offense, they're both playing defense, and they both are adjusting their game based on the score at any given point. But in fantasy sports... you're just trying to score the most points. Period. So the idea that Team A beat Team B twice but they still ended up with the same record.... so what? Did Team A adjust their roster for the week he played Team B? Did he have any impact on Team B's points?

As I said, all you're trying to do is score the most points every week. Which is why I think who scored the most points over the course of a season to be a better measure.

Ah, I get what you mean.

But then there's no real point for weekly matchups then is there, by that logic, and keeping a win/loss record. :-?
Your argument for total points being the tiebreaker only really fits if no standings are kept, and just a ranking based on total points IMO.
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Postby onnestabe » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:28 pm

beanoX3 wrote:
Matthias wrote:That's what it is but really, what does it mean?

In real life sports, if two teams play each other, they're both playing offense, they're both playing defense, and they both are adjusting their game based on the score at any given point. But in fantasy sports... you're just trying to score the most points. Period. So the idea that Team A beat Team B twice but they still ended up with the same record.... so what? Did Team A adjust their roster for the week he played Team B? Did he have any impact on Team B's points?

As I said, all you're trying to do is score the most points every week. Which is why I think who scored the most points over the course of a season to be a better measure.

Ah, I get what you mean.

But then there's no real point for weekly matchups then is there, by that logic, and keeping a win/loss record. :-?
Your argument for total points being the tiebreaker only really fits if no standings are kept, and just a ranking based on total points IMO.


H2H leagues are fun because they breed trash talk and rivalries and such, but there is also a lot of luck involved with it. Using total points as the first tie-breaker is a good way to eliminate some of that luck.
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Postby The Balanced Man » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:30 pm

It is a common system, but there are some things...

Problems with the above system:

1. Head to head record tiebreaker when 3 teams are tied.

For this, let's assume that 3 teams have the same record, and hence are tied for the last wild card spot. Two are in the same division, one is from another division. Generally, in leagues with divisions, Division members play eachother twice.

Hence, we will compare the records when the three faced eachother. Let's say it looks like this:

Team 1- 2-1
Team 2- 1-2
Team 3- 2-0

They haven't played the same amount of games. Do you go by winning percentage? Who is to say that team 3 wouldn't have lost the last game... or won?

Head to head record just plain shouldn't be used when there is an uneven number of games between any two teams.

2. Comparing Division Games between teams in different divisions isn't fair

Everyone who plays in leagues with divisions knows that there is always a "hard" division and a "cake" division. If someone goes 5-1 in a cake division and a team goes 4-2 in the hard division, comparing the two is apples to oranges... and unfair.



After many many problems with tiebreakers, I have found that this system is best:

For Division Crowns:

1. Division Record
2. Total Points

For Wild Cards/Seeding:

1. Total Points
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