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An article EVERYONE needs to read about Michael Vick

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Postby Dan Lambskin » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:56 am

his stats are just too reliant on his legs...i dont want to be starting him in the playoffs when he puts up a statline like 160/1/2 with 30 yards rushing or something to that effect
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Postby BigMusky » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:22 pm

yeah a guy in my league has been starting Kitna over Vick all year....his smack talking quote is "I hate QB's", so I made mine when I play him "Vick is worthless if you dont start him"

This guy has blown a playoff spot by not starting him this year.
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Postby Pete123444 » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:24 pm

The Lung wrote:
Azrael wrote:He also fails to point out how Vick is absolutely, completely worthless in TD heavy leagues, or leagues where you only get points upon meeting yardage threshholds such as 300yds passing or 100yds rushing.


Does anyone play in those kinds of leagues?

Is there really a league where a RB or QB only receives points if he exceeds 100 yards rushing? Or a WR, TE, or RB must exceed 100 yards receiving? And if he only puts up 99 yards he gets zero? And if a QB throws for 299 he gets zero? I can see bonus points for achieving the milestone, but zero points for not crossing the threshold is gotta be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of.


I'm in one like that Lung. But the first threshold is 50 yards rushing/receiving(3 points). 250 for passing(3 points).

I'm also in another league where QB's get 0 points no matter how many yards rushing they acquire.
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Postby knapplc » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:08 pm

Azrael wrote:All I'm saying is that I'm not going to be all over Vick next year because of this year. I don't think he can put up near 1,200 yards every year. It's what we call a career year.


Bingo. Vick is having his best fantasy year in 2006. Does that mean he's going to do it again in 2007? Nope. And like Azrael says, this is a career year for Vick, so I highly doubt he does it again.

When a QB relies on his legs to make plays he's a timebomb waiting to go off. One false step, BOOM! - ACL. One weird tackle, BOOM! - broken leg. Then where is he? The only highly mobile QB I've ever seen that dramatically reinvented himself that I can remember is John Elway. Vick simply doesn't have the same arm Elway had. I suppose you could make the argument for Randall Cunningham, but I'm not thinking he had the same success fantasy-wise that Elway had after he lost his mobility.

The bottom line is that most fantasy owners draft Vick right where he belongs - in the middle of the third or fourth tier depending on their scoring format. There's no way he's going to climb higher than second in a draft because he's historically been too inconsistent.

Never once has Vick come close to the top tier in my league. This year, his best, he's sixth. Traditionally he's finished out of the top ten. In a twelve-team league, that's a decent QB, but not the guy I want to pin my hopes on.

It's OK to be a Vick homer, but don't berate people because they don't respect a guy who has never been much more than a middle-of-the-road player. It doesn't make sense.
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Postby The Lung » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:25 pm

knapplc wrote:It's OK to be a Vick homer, but don't berate people because they don't respect a guy who has never been much more than a middle-of-the-road player. It doesn't make sense.


I'm not a Vick homer. In fact, I'm a Steelers fan and don't like the Falcons at all.

But to ignore Vick's fantasy stats is just foolish, and to say that he's a middle-of-the-road player is just flat out wrong. The evidence is given to you as plain as day that in just about any league format, Vick is a top 10 fantasy QB this year. And a top 5 fantasy QB in most.

I'm not trying to berate people, I'm trying to help them! You all have the ability to draft a top 5 fantasy QB in the 9th - 11th round of fantasy drafts next year! You make a good point about this being a career year, but what if Vick is able to duplicate that yardage next year? Isn't that worth risking a 9th round or later pick on?

Of course it is! ;-D
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Postby eaglesrule » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:49 pm

well, randall had a monster fantasy season with minnesota, in a 10/25 yardage format, it was like 350 pts or so. pretty monstrous.he reivineted himself. but he never seemed to have that running element to a large degree after 1990. His resurgent monster season was 1998.
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Postby knapplc » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:05 pm

The Lung wrote:
knapplc wrote:It's OK to be a Vick homer, but don't berate people because they don't respect a guy who has never been much more than a middle-of-the-road player. It doesn't make sense.


I'm not a Vick homer. In fact, I'm a Steelers fan and don't like the Falcons at all.

But to ignore Vick's fantasy stats is just foolish, and to say that he's a middle-of-the-road player is just flat out wrong. The evidence is given to you as plain as day that in just about any league format, Vick is a top 10 fantasy QB this year. And a top 5 fantasy QB in most.

I'm not trying to berate people, I'm trying to help them! You all have the ability to draft a top 5 fantasy QB in the 9th - 11th round of fantasy drafts next year! You make a good point about this being a career year, but what if Vick is able to duplicate that yardage next year? Isn't that worth risking a 9th round or later pick on?

Of course it is! ;-D

Your help sounds a lot like "You're foolish if you don't draft Vick," which sounds a little aggressive to me. Advice is fine, but don't chastise people for not taking it, or for having a different view.

In my league's system, Vick has NEVER been higher than 11th until this season. The man has tread left on the tires, sure, but he's not young. Soon he's going to have to stop relying on his feet to earn fantasy points and then where is he? He's not a pocket passer.

In my keeper league Vick wasn't even kept last year, and he wasn't drafted until the sixth round. The guy who owns him has Delhomme, and I'd say it's 50/50 whether he keeps Hommey over Vick next season, too.

Fantasy QBs earn points with their arms. Vick is not a prototypical QB or fantasy QB, but even with this season on his resume I'm going to go with a pure passer over Vick next year.

Unless he puts together a couple of top-tier seasons you're not going to change minds with this thread or that article. The guy is an unknown commodity. Give me a known commodity any time over that, thanks.
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Postby skibrett15 » Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:15 pm

The Lung wrote:
Azrael wrote:He also fails to point out how Vick is absolutely, completely worthless in TD heavy leagues, or leagues where you only get points upon meeting yardage threshholds such as 300yds passing or 100yds rushing.


Does anyone play in those kinds of leagues?

Is there really a league where a RB or QB only receives points if he exceeds 100 yards rushing? Or a WR, TE, or RB must exceed 100 yards receiving? And if he only puts up 99 yards he gets zero? And if a QB throws for 299 he gets zero? I can see bonus points for achieving the milestone, but zero points for not crossing the threshold is gotta be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of.


I'm in a league like this. But it's really money heavy and a total points league so you don't get totally screwed week to week. It awards money based on how much you are above the league average.

The problem is, even though vick is number 6... that doesn't make him an every week starter. When it comes to QBs you can make do with almost anyone (except Jake Plummer) because the matchups are easy enough to play. Unless you're in a big/deep league where you carry 2-3 QBs then it's pretty clear for most QBs when to play them. Not true of Vick. He can screw up a game vs. any defense.

Also... Vick has the strongest arm in the NFL. Bar none (maybe Kyle Boller). There is still a small chance that he could become a better passer. Only if his ego doesn't stop him and they dummy up an offense designed for him. I'd love to see what scott linehan could do with Mike Vick. You can look at the Falcons 2 ways: Vick is screwing over Jim Mora, or Jim Mora and his staff isn't versatile enough to utilize Mike Vick. They have the right O-lineman, but not the right receivers and routes.
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Postby JasonSeahorn » Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:33 pm

Just draft peyton in the 1st round and you wouldn't have to worry about vick :-B
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Postby dgan » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:04 pm

JasonSeahorn wrote:Just draft peyton in the 1st round and you wouldn't have to worry about vick :-B


I did...then I drafted Vick in the 5th.

Oh...did I mention we can play a QB in the flex in our league? LOL! Money in the bank, man, money in the bank. I have the #1 and #2 QBs in our league, and I can start them both...doesn't get much better than that!
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