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BCS Controversy: Lloyd vs. Urban?

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Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:34 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:
CC wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:
CC wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:Lloyd vs. Urban??

If we're talking boxing I'll take Urban, he's got youth on his side.


If were talking football i'll take Urban too. :-D


If we're talking NCs I'll take Lloyd.

That spread offense that doesn't move the ball in the SEC hasn't impressed me, their defense is sick, but I'm not going to give too much props to "offensive genius" Urban Meyer for that.


I'll take a guy that everytime he coaches a team impoves it dramatically over an underachiver.

Problem with the spread at UF is he hasn't had the players. In 2 more seasons we will see how it worls against the SEC.


I could see this if you are arguing about Iowa, but talking about how great Meyer is in spite of the talent he has at Florida is a joke.


To run the spread effectively you need a mobile QB who can run the option. Leak is no where near the QB needed for the system. Yes we have tons of athletic guys on the field Harvin, Caldwell, Baker, Ingram, Wynn etc., but the Mobile QB makes it work, my point was the reason the Spread O wasn't working in the SEC was due to wrong personel. To find out if i am right we can only wait.


You do have a mobile QB on that roster...it just isn't Leak.


Oh i def know, look at the sig, but he isn't running the team, thats why i said we need to wait, if we don't put up points with him at QB i will be the first one to say the spread doesn;t work in the SEC ;-D


Yeah...all I am saying is that you can't blame the personel for the spread not working, because you do have a mobile QB if that is the main problem- I do give Meyer a lot of credit for making a 2 QB system work...I don't think I have ever seen that before.
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Postby Free Bagel » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:34 pm

CC wrote:I could see this if you are arguing about Iowa, but talking about how great Meyer is in spite of the talent he has at Florida is a joke.


I too have not been impressed with the success - or lack thereof - of the spread offense in the SEC.

Nonetheless I'm willing to give it a mulligan on the same basis as deeray. Obviously he's not saying they lack all around talent with the best recruiting class in the nation 2 of the last 4 years, no one is saying that and that talent is the biggest part of their 12-1 record right now.

However, if there is ONE thing that is totally necessary for that offense, it is a QB that is a threat to run. If you could take one thing out of that offense to totally break it, that one piece is 50 times more valuable than any of the other pieces. That said, his QB is not only a pocket passer, but is a player who is the guy who is the most scared to take a hit of any other player I've ever seen at the college or pro level at any position, including kickers and I'm not exaggerating. You can see it any time they run a standard option, he is just absolutely no threat to lower his head and turn upfield with authority, in 2 years it hasn't happened a single time. It's to the point where everyone applauds Leak just for keeping the ball and falling forward for a half yard, even though it could've been 7 yards had he *really* turned it up field with the intention of running hard rather than the intention of "oh crap the pitch isn't open so I'd better just fall over".

He's also stuck with a slew of power RBs when he needs a speed (Slaton-type) RB. Although on the other hand he has 100x the WR talent he's used to so that helps, and is why you'll often see our WRs with more carries than our RBs at the end of games.
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Postby deerayfan072 » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:40 pm

Flesh- Problem is Meyer could not have put Tebow in this year, that would have pissed off a lot of the playhers considering how populae Leak is with the older guys, so yea you can rotate, but it's not the same effect as one guy who can do both, the D looks run when Tebow comes in.

Bagel- couldn't have said it better myself. Did u see Leak running the option last night. Dear God i thought he was gonna die. After he had that shovel pass INT, he kept thinking it was gonna happen again and was taking losses rather than pitching it. Urban needs to figure something out before the NC game.
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Postby CC » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:48 pm

Free Bagel wrote:
CC wrote:I could see this if you are arguing about Iowa, but talking about how great Meyer is in spite of the talent he has at Florida is a joke.


I too have not been impressed with the success - or lack thereof - of the spread offense in the SEC.

Nonetheless I'm willing to give it a mulligan on the same basis as deeray. Obviously he's not saying they lack all around talent with the best recruiting class in the nation 2 of the last 4 years, no one is saying that and that talent is the biggest part of their 12-1 record right now.

However, if there is ONE thing that is totally necessary for that offense, it is a QB that is a threat to run. If you could take one thing out of that offense to totally break it, that one piece is 50 times more valuable than any of the other pieces. That said, his QB is not only a pocket passer, but is a player who is the guy who is the most scared to take a hit of any other player I've ever seen at the college or pro level at any position, including kickers and I'm not exaggerating. You can see it any time they run a standard option, he is just absolutely no threat to lower his head and turn upfield with authority, in 2 years it hasn't happened a single time. It's to the point where everyone applauds Leak just for keeping the ball and falling forward for a half yard, even though it could've been 7 yards had he *really* turned it up field with the intention of running hard rather than the intention of "oh crap the pitch isn't open so I'd better just fall over".

He's also stuck with a slew of power RBs when he needs a speed (Slaton-type) RB. Although on the other hand he has 100x the WR talent he's used to so that helps, and is why you'll often see our WRs with more carries than our RBs at the end of games.


I can see where you are coming from and Tebow looks like the ideal guy to run this offense, especially with a small, shifty, speed back like Rainey coming in who should be a great fit.

That said, I'm not going to give Meyer complete credit for making an offense work when he has 10 5* and 4* WRs and is loaded with talent at every single position. It may not be the offense in the future so much as they players in it. The offense would gain my respect if he took a bunch of 3* and made it work in the SEC, but I guess I can't really fault Urban for being a good recruiter in a talent rich area of the country.
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Postby Sandrock » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:01 am

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:I think Urban is an a$$ whole, and I have thought so for a while, not only after they got voted in over Michigan- one of the main reasons florida got in over michigan is because he campaigned, and that really isnt part of college football- its just simply unethical to influence voters regarding your team.


Do you remember Texas campaigning for the BCS over CAL a few years ago?

EDIT

And by "campaigning" I mean pathetic groveling by Mack Brown.
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Postby knapplc » Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:43 am

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:one of the main reasons florida got in over michigan is because he campaigned, and that really isnt part of college football- its just simply unethical to influence voters regarding your team.

You mean like Michigan did when they took half the title from Nebraska in 1997? Every show you saw, someone from Michigan was actively saying how they should be the MNC despite the fact that the Big 10 hadn't bought in to the BCS yet. Nebraska lost half their title because of that campaigning.

I suppose it's a lot easier to accept when your team is the team doing it? ;-)

I'm no Florida/Urban Meyer apologist, but I'd like to ask what you guys think he SHOULD have done - say his team DOESN'T deserve a shot at the title? His job is to get his team to the best bowl he can. I think he did exactly what he should have done.

Florida deserves the same thing that Michigan had - one shot at dethroning the #1 team in the land. That's all anybody deserves. Michigan already had their chance, so why shouldn't Florida get theirs?

Let me ask you Michigan fans this - if Florida and Arkansas had entered this weekend's game undefeated and 1-2 in the BCS, should the loser have a shot at the winner again in the title game? If not, why not?
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Postby HskrPwr13 » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:28 am

I agree with your thoughts about Meyer. I dont like what I've seen out of him from a 'class' perspective, but he did what he had to, is paid to do. If I'm a Michigan fan, I'm probably a little bent at Carr for not dropping the hammer on some of these teams throughout the season that they couldve, shouldve hammered on the scoreboard, ex. PSU and Ball State.
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