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What would you do as commissioner here? (Tanking games)

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Postby TaDa » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:39 pm

Az, I think your situation is different since it involves two teams colluding. In this scenario, I think it's the owner taking the situation into his own hands to try and win the playoffs.
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Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:43 pm

I disagree. I don't think it's "candy coating" it. It's saying that you don't really care whether or not you win that week so you're not goign to put your best players in. If you take a 0, the other team automatically is going to win. However, by putting mediocre players you are only decreasing the chance you will win, not completely annhilating it.

Although I completely understand your point Azrael, and if I was the guy being left out, I'd probably be pretty annoyed either way.
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Postby Azrael » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:44 pm

TaDa wrote:Az, I think your situation is different since it involves two teams colluding. In this scenario, I think it's the owner taking the situation into his own hands to try and win the playoffs.


In that thread, yes it involves 2 teams colluding to cheat.

Tanking by yourself is also cheating.
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Postby TaDa » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:21 pm

Here are the rules from ESPN, which is the site I use for my leagues.

Certain transactions made solely to impede other owners is not allowed. Tanking games for the sole purpose of denying another players chances to make the playoffs is against the rules. In particular, cycling through players in free agency to put them on waivers and make them unavailable to other teams in your league is strictly prohibited, and is grounds for expulsion from the game.

The main sentence here is "Tanking games for the sole purpose of denying another players chances to make the playoffs is against the rules."

In this scenario, the owner is not tanking to block the other team from the playoffs, that just happens to be an unfortunate outcome. He is doing this to better his chances of winning his first round of the playoffs.

I really think that this turns into a religeous debate every year. I happen to be of the belief that strategy is a legitimate part of the game. Nothing prevents an owner that is stupid from benching LaDainian Tomlinson for Rueben Droughns because of a matchup. That owner believes that he is doing what is best for his team to win. This happens to be the same thing to me. This owner is trying to get farther in the playoffs and possibly win it all.
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Postby Azrael » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:32 pm

TaDa wrote: Nothing prevents an owner that is stupid from benching LaDainian Tomlinson for Rueben Droughns because of a matchup. That owner believes that he is doing what is best for his team to win. This happens to be the same thing to me. This owner is trying to get farther in the playoffs and possibly win it all.


Except in this instance, we're talking about benching guys in order to lose, not win. Ultimately, you are doing what you think is best for your team for the playoffs but that doesn't make it right.

Why, in so many leagues, are there rules put into place (such as a lottery) to prevent bad teams from tanking at the end of the year in order to get a better draft pick? Aren't they just trying to do what's best for their teams in the long run? Isn't that a "strategy"?

Just because they may fix 2 or 3 games to lose and you are only fixing 1 doesn't justify what you are doing.
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Postby Matthias » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:00 pm

TaDa wrote:The main sentence here is "Tanking games for the sole purpose of denying another players chances to make the playoffs is against the rules."

In this scenario, the owner is not tanking to block the other team from the playoffs, that just happens to be an unfortunate outcome. He is doing this to better his chances of winning his first round of the playoffs.


No. They're exactly the same thing. He's trying to better his chances of winning his first round by denying the fourth place's chances at the playoffs. These aren't two different teams: they're the same one. So it's not just, "an outcome outcome": it's the only outcome.
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Postby pvt1863 » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:16 pm

Why do people always bring up the "but it helps the person doing it" as an argument that an action is ethical? If something is in your best interest, that does not automatically make it ethical. In fact, I think we'd all be hard pressed to find an example of someone doing something that is both unethical and not in the perpetrator's best interest (best interest includes self interest and the intrest of friends).

If I have a goal of earning $1000 this week, I can't go out and steal it from someone and say "It is helping me achieve my goal, therefore it is OK." Theft is unethical whether it helps you or not because it harms others. Similarly, tanking is unethical whether it helps you or not because it harms others by undermining the competitive nature of the game and removing other teams' abilities to control their own destinies.

If intentionally losing a game to manipulate playoff seeding is acceptable, then intentionally losing a game to manipulate the next year's draft must also be acceptable. As a result, the end of every season will be less about trying to win and more about manipulating the rankings for future payoffs.

If I were the commish of that league, I would force him to start players and to justify his decisions if he makes any questionable ones. If he were to fail to do so, I would remove his team from the playoffs. But that's just me, and I take ethics very seriously both in real life and in fantasy football.
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Make his team roster legal - a zero is not acceptable!!

Postby bill_w_wv » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:39 pm

This is not fair to other team owners, especially a bubble team who may miss the playoffs. At least put in a lineup that is legal. It is not a rule in my league but everyone tries to win every week. Commisioner has fixed team lineups which were illegal at numerous points or owners could not access a computer at gametime & called commish to set their line ups.

I can see the strategy part of argument, however I think it takes away from the sportsmanship issue. In this case your league is composed from close friends, & this could cause a league precedent which could ultimately be against certain owners thereby alienating certain friends.

May be something your league votes on in the future,(each owner vote) to set up no one can intentionally or unintentionally take a zero making it ok or not ok. May also protect some friendships also. Your league being close friends should be more about smack talk than being a bit underhanded imo.

Good Luck
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Postby codered7 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:27 am

LEGIT! I'd do it, if it would get rid of some crazy monster like lt from the playoffs??? Hell yea I would. If your friend w/ the good team is complaining, then he should bitch to the 1st place team, and mb he'll be nice. But if the dude is competitive and wants to win, he has the right to tank a game. If he is nice, he would play it out. But fantasy football is competitive game, everyone in ur league knows that, and they should understand that its legit to tank games.
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