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Who makes the playoffs?

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Postby Pete123444 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:04 pm

Pete123444 wrote:
mattb47 wrote:
Pete123444 wrote:
grover99 wrote:All three teams have the same winning %. A tie is counted as half a win and half a loss. So if your next tiebreaker is h2h, they 4-7-2 team should be in.


All three teams DO NOT have the same winning percentage. 5-8 is higher than 4-7-2.


Actually they do.....a tie is indeed considered half a win and half a loss, therefore giving that team 5 "wins" along with the other 2 teams.


Sorry Matt, you're wrong here. Winning percentage is calculated with wins against losses. Ties don't count at all when calculating winning percentage.


Sorry Matt, you're RIGHT here! I stand corrected. Ties count as half wins half losses as you said. I wonder when they changed that?
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Postby Pete123444 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:07 pm

mattb47 wrote:
Pete123444 wrote:
mattb47 wrote:
Pete123444 wrote:
grover99 wrote:All three teams have the same winning %. A tie is counted as half a win and half a loss. So if your next tiebreaker is h2h, they 4-7-2 team should be in.


All three teams DO NOT have the same winning percentage. 5-8 is higher than 4-7-2.


Actually they do.....a tie is indeed considered half a win and half a loss, therefore giving that team 5 "wins" along with the other 2 teams.


Sorry Matt, you're wrong here. Winning percentage is calculated with wins against losses. Ties don't count at all when calculating winning percentage.


Where are you getting your information for this from? Like Matthias pointed out, it's how the NFL does things, it's how it's taught on this "How to play Fantasy Football page":

http://www.fantasyindex.com/How2Play.html

This is also stated as the offical method of the NCAA in determining winning percentage here:

http://football.stassen.com/records/notes/faq.html

Just wondering where this information is coming from that I'm wrong.


Maybe the game has passed me by.......
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Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:59 pm

5-8 is absolutely a better win % than 4-7-2. If you think about it, .500 is a better % than either of them have, and the 5-8 teams went .500 in the games the 4-7-2 team tied- also when it is caluculated, i think it is wins/losses, so the 5-8 teams have a better win %
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Re: Who makes the playoffs?

Postby Peacesells » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:53 pm

lubee3619 wrote:We have a league where the last spot in the playoffs is up for grabs. 3 teams are competing, 2 are 5-8, 1 is 4-7-2. Our first tie breaker is overall win %. Is 5-8 a better win % than 4-7-2? Ten it's head to head. 4-7-2 beat both 5-8 teams, so if it gets to that they are in. I think next year I need to fix this mess before it starts. Any ideas?

Thanks!


I think you have to go over how your rules are written. If I were to read it is based on win%, I would think you count the number of wins versus the total # of games played. That may or may not be how the NFL or others do it but I believe you should spell out in your rules if ties count as half a win or not. If you didn't there is alot of room for questions. The league I run the only time a tie comes into play is if two teams have the same number of wins but one team also has a tie. The second team would get the playoff spot.

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Postby mattb47 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:18 pm

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:5-8 is absolutely a better win % than 4-7-2. If you think about it, .500 is a better % than either of them have, and the 5-8 teams went .500 in the games the 4-7-2 team tied- also when it is caluculated, i think it is wins/losses, so the 5-8 teams have a better win %


Just because it sounds like it should be better, doesn't make it better. By definition they are the same percentage. A tie is logged as half a win and half a loss, so with 2 "half wins" they get to 5 wins out of 13 just like the other teams. It's how the NFL does it, how the NCAA does it and it is the way is should be done here. Because that's how winning percentage is calculated now.
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Postby bdrotoronto » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:40 pm

mattb47 wrote:
Pete123444 wrote:
grover99 wrote:All three teams have the same winning %. A tie is counted as half a win and half a loss. So if your next tiebreaker is h2h, they 4-7-2 team should be in.


All three teams DO NOT have the same winning percentage. 5-8 is higher than 4-7-2.


Actually they do.....a tie is indeed considered half a win and half a loss, therefore giving that team 5 "wins" along with the other 2 teams.

That's actually a cultural assumption that's not necessarily true.. it used to be true in hockey (i.e. tie = 1 point, win = 2 points), but in European soccer, for instance, a tie is worth 1 point, but a win is worth 3 points. Basically, a tie is only worth "half a win" if you explicitly decide as a league that you believe that's what it's worth.

A situation like this happened in my league a few years ago (to decide last place), basically it was decided that 4-10 was better than 3-9-2, b/c a win was 'better' than 2 ties.

Not saying you have to go this route, but it's a fantasy league and therefore an issue that the league ought to be entitled to vote on (since the situation probably could not have been predicted).
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Postby lmcjaho » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:17 am

That's why in our league we award 2pts per win and 1pt per tie - that way there is no confusion at the end - if a team is 6-5-2 and another team is 7-7 they both have 14 pts...
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Postby mattb47 » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:31 am

bdrotoronto wrote:
mattb47 wrote:
Pete123444 wrote:
grover99 wrote:All three teams have the same winning %. A tie is counted as half a win and half a loss. So if your next tiebreaker is h2h, they 4-7-2 team should be in.


All three teams DO NOT have the same winning percentage. 5-8 is higher than 4-7-2.


Actually they do.....a tie is indeed considered half a win and half a loss, therefore giving that team 5 "wins" along with the other 2 teams.

That's actually a cultural assumption that's not necessarily true.. it used to be true in hockey (i.e. tie = 1 point, win = 2 points), but in European soccer, for instance, a tie is worth 1 point, but a win is worth 3 points. Basically, a tie is only worth "half a win" if you explicitly decide as a league that you believe that's what it's worth.

A situation like this happened in my league a few years ago (to decide last place), basically it was decided that 4-10 was better than 3-9-2, b/c a win was 'better' than 2 ties.

Not saying you have to go this route, but it's a fantasy league and therefore an issue that the league ought to be entitled to vote on (since the situation probably could not have been predicted).


Maybe a win is better than 2 ties, but aren't 2 ties better than a loss? And this isn't fantasy hockey or european soccer.....this is fantasy football and without a definite rule in place, I believe they should use the definition of winning percentage put forth by the NFL. Their rule is winning percentage, not a points system in which a win is 2 pts and a tie is 1. Although even with that logic, having a record of 5-8 would be 10 pts and having a record of 4-7-2 would also be 10 pts.....
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Postby Pete123444 » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:54 pm

mattb47 wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:5-8 is absolutely a better win % than 4-7-2. If you think about it, .500 is a better % than either of them have, and the 5-8 teams went .500 in the games the 4-7-2 team tied- also when it is caluculated, i think it is wins/losses, so the 5-8 teams have a better win %


Just because it sounds like it should be better, doesn't make it better. By definition they are the same percentage. A tie is logged as half a win and half a loss, so with 2 "half wins" they get to 5 wins out of 13 just like the other teams. It's how the NFL does it, how the NCAA does it and it is the way is should be done here. Because that's how winning percentage is calculated now.


ABSOLUTELY,POSITIVELY AGREE!!!
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