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Any Apple Owners?

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Re: Any Apple Owners?

Postby josebach » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:56 am

steelerfan513 wrote:Just got a Mac, and I love it. It's so much faster than our old PC, and it's just overall awesome. ;-D


If you replace an old computer with ANY new computer, it's bound to be faster, no?

It's not just gaming software. Go to Office Depot's website and look at the Mac software section. Now compare those 35 titles with all of the other software they sell for PCs. Macs are a niche market. If you're in that niche, great. If not, why pay a premium price on a machine that significantly handcuffs what software you can or can't buy. It's almost like one of the main reasons people get Macs is so they can say they have a Mac. How many Mac users have gone without a service or application because software wasn't available? How many future applications will peak the interest of Mac users only to disappoint them when they find out it won't be available for Macs? I just think it would get EXTREMELY old to have to check every single piece of software I consider buying to determine if I can run it. Of course if you ONLY look at software available to Macs, you don't have to go through that because you won't know any better. No brains, no headache, right? (and of course I'm not implying that Mac users don't have brains) :-b

I honestly believe that a lot of Mac people are so vocal about their computers because they're trying to rationalize their purchase. Why else do they seek constant validation from other Mac users? Of course nobody in this thread falls under that category. ;-)
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Re: Any Apple Owners?

Postby The Balanced Man » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:20 am

josebach wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:Just got a Mac, and I love it. It's so much faster than our old PC, and it's just overall awesome. ;-D


If you replace an old computer with ANY new computer, it's bound to be faster, no?

It's not just gaming software. Go to Office Depot's website and look at the Mac software section. Now compare those 35 titles with all of the other software they sell for PCs. Macs are a niche market. If you're in that niche, great. If not, why pay a premium price on a machine that significantly handcuffs what software you can or can't buy. It's almost like one of the main reasons people get Macs is so they can say they have a Mac. How many Mac users have gone without a service or application because software wasn't available? How many future applications will peak the interest of Mac users only to disappoint them when they find out it won't be available for Macs? I also think a lot of Mac people are so vocal about their computer because they're trying to rationalize their purchase. Of course nobody in this thread falls under that category. ;-)


For people who like computer games, I would definetly say that a Mac is not for them. I use both PCs and Macs, but my main computer is a mac.

When I switched, The only programs I wanted were Microsoft Office and Photoshop, and those were both readily available. Mac had software in it to do the rest of the things I wanted.

The only true difference I've noticed is that I never have a crash, or really and technical problem with my mac, whereas I would have numerous crashes, physical memory dumps, etc. on my PC.

So that is essentially the choice... Tons of software vs. ease of use. pick your poison.
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Re: Any Apple Owners?

Postby WickedSmaat » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:22 am

josebach wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:Just got a Mac, and I love it. It's so much faster than our old PC, and it's just overall awesome. ;-D


If you replace an old computer with ANY new computer, it's bound to be faster, no?

It's not just gaming software. Go to Office Depot's website and look at the Mac software section. Now compare those 35 titles with all of the other software they sell for PCs. Macs are a niche market. If you're in that niche, great. If not, why pay a premium price on a machine that significantly handcuffs what software you can or can't buy. It's almost like one of the main reasons people get Macs is so they can say they have a Mac. How many Mac users have gone without a service or application because software wasn't available? How many future applications will peak the interest of Mac users only to disappoint them when they find out it won't be available for Macs? I also think a lot of Mac people are so vocal about their computer because they're trying to rationalize their purchase. Of course nobody in this thread falls under that category. ;-)


Prolem Solved ;D

It's not like you've never been able get an application if you needed it. There's always been a few emulators out on the market that are able to do it, but they've never been like Boot Camp. They used to be kind of slow and clunky because they just ate into the RAM, but now it runs natively so it won't slow down. If a mac user ever really needed it, they could have it, you can't just say and speak for the majority of mac owners when, I'm assuming here, that you've never owned one yourself ;)
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Re: Any Apple Owners?

Postby josebach » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:49 am

WickedSmaat wrote:
josebach wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:Just got a Mac, and I love it. It's so much faster than our old PC, and it's just overall awesome. ;-D


If you replace an old computer with ANY new computer, it's bound to be faster, no?

It's not just gaming software. Go to Office Depot's website and look at the Mac software section. Now compare those 35 titles with all of the other software they sell for PCs. Macs are a niche market. If you're in that niche, great. If not, why pay a premium price on a machine that significantly handcuffs what software you can or can't buy. It's almost like one of the main reasons people get Macs is so they can say they have a Mac. How many Mac users have gone without a service or application because software wasn't available? How many future applications will peak the interest of Mac users only to disappoint them when they find out it won't be available for Macs? I also think a lot of Mac people are so vocal about their computer because they're trying to rationalize their purchase. Of course nobody in this thread falls under that category. ;-)


Prolem Solved ;D

It's not like you've never been able get an application if you needed it. There's always been a few emulators out on the market that are able to do it, but they've never been like Boot Camp. They used to be kind of slow and clunky because they just ate into the RAM, but now it runs natively so it won't slow down. If a mac user ever really needed it, they could have it, you can't just say and speak for the majority of mac owners when, I'm assuming here, that you've never owned one yourself ;)



I'm a gamer, why would I ever buy a Mac? To surf the web? I can do that with my PC just fine.
Here's an interesting article from USA Today on "Bootcamp".
Boot Camp isn't going to propel the Mac into the mainstream. If anything, it will get Mac users to switch to Windows. Sure, it'll be terrific for Mac fans not wanting to give up their machine of choice but find more and more they need to use Windows. But Boot Camp doesn't offer any kind of compelling argument for PC users to buy Mac hardware.

Economics 101

The vast majority of software isn't made for Macs, so you'd end up buying one just to run Windows — talk about voodoo economics!

The Macs that can currently run Boot Camp are the Mac Mini, the iMac, and the MacBook Pro notebook. Price-wise, they can't compete with PCs.

The Mini will set you back about $1100 for a machine with 512 MB of RAM and a 60-GB hard drive — that's when you add in a keyboard, mouse, midrange monitor ($150), and a full copy of Windows XP.

The iMac is about $1600 (with 512 MB RAM, a 160-GB hard drive, and Windows). The MacBook Pro, with an 80-GB hard drive, is about $2000 with Windows. (All these prices come from the Apple Store. I mention the hard drive sizes in particular because you'd need the space to load two operating systems and two sets of software.)

In contrast, a 3 GHz Gateway DX210 PC with 1 GB of RAM, a 160 GB hard drive, and the same monitor I suggested for the Mac Mini — that'll be only $900.

If you own a business, it's a pretty easy choice.

But let's say the extra cost of buying a Mac doesn't bother you — your employees really want Macs and have convinced you to buy them.

By the way, I certainly hope you haven't bought into the argument "graphics are better on the Mac." Yeah, in 1992. Go to a bookstore and grab a book on using Photoshop; you'll see that the Mac and Windows versions are identical. In fact, Photoshop isn't yet optimized to take advantage of the Mac's Intel processors.

Oh, and the whole "no viruses on the Mac" business? Besides the fact that it's no longer true, you can get this neat stuff called anti-virus software.

Still, say you decide to buy Macs for your business. Your employees will boot to Windows only to run the applications they absolutely have to, but they'll "live" in OS X most of the time.

That'll be fun. Boot Camp doesn't allow quick switching between OS X and Windows. You have to reboot:

"John, can you get me that info from the accounting system?"

"Sure, but hang on a few minutes while I reboot into Windows."

(The folks at Parallels.com, however, released "virtualization software" that they say allows OS X to run any operating system, including Windows, within OS X — no rebooting required. So that's a step above Boot Camp right off, even if it costs $50.)

Further, your IT department now has to support two operating systems, which — given that the majority of IT pros aren't Mac people — means hiring or training. But let's say you're blessed with a staff that already knows both. You're still faced with two OSs, two sets of problems, and double the headache. Oh, joy.

(Mac fans: You may now commence writing me to scream, "Double the headache??? More like 1.00001 times!!! Macs don't cause headaches!!!")

Why bother?

So if Boot Camp isn't going to convince legions of Windows users to join the Cult of Mac, what's the point? After all, Steve Jobs (praise be unto him) wouldn't introduce a product without a plan.

Well, it's a great tool for people who want to stick with the Mac for whatever reason — security, hardware or software investment, or simple preference. It will allow those people to access the tremendous amount of software not available for the Mac while still letting them boot into OS X when they wanted to use a Macintosh application — or simply if they wanted an OS X fix.

And businesses who have employees who need (or say they need) Macs might also find Boot Camp useful for the same compatibility reasons.

But the notion put forward by some Mac folks — that Boot Camp will improve the Mac's position in the business and gaming marketplace — is backward. Instead, it's more likely to convince Mac users to switch to Windows once they've used it long enough to be deprogrammed.

And, judging by some of the comments to an Apple message board, they may not have a choice. It seems that installing Boot Camp can kill OS X, thus instantly converting Mac users to Windows.

It may not be so bad — they might even enjoy the convenience of sharing a common platform with the other 97% of the world, brought to them courtesy of Boot Camp.


http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/ ... camp_x.htm
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Re: Any Apple Owners?

Postby knapplc » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:54 am

josebach wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:Just got a Mac, and I love it. It's so much faster than our old PC, and it's just overall awesome. ;-D


If you replace an old computer with ANY new computer, it's bound to be faster, no?

It's not just gaming software. Go to Office Depot's website and look at the Mac software section. Now compare those 35 titles with all of the other software they sell for PCs. Macs are a niche market. If you're in that niche, great. If not, why pay a premium price on a machine that significantly handcuffs what software you can or can't buy. It's almost like one of the main reasons people get Macs is so they can say they have a Mac. How many Mac users have gone without a service or application because software wasn't available? How many future applications will peak the interest of Mac users only to disappoint them when they find out it won't be available for Macs? I just think it would get EXTREMELY old to have to check every single piece of software I consider buying to determine if I can run it. Of course if you ONLY look at software available to Macs, you don't have to go through that because you won't know any better. No brains, no headache, right? (and of course I'm not implying that Mac users don't have brains) :-b

I honestly believe that a lot of Mac people are so vocal about their computers because they're trying to rationalize their purchase. Why else do they seek constant validation from other Mac users? Of course nobody in this thread falls under that category. ;-)

What software can't I get for my Mac? I'll give you games, the vast, vast majority of games are NOT written for Macs, but what else?

Let's put it this way - I've been using Macs exclusively at home for 15 years and I have never found a type of software that I want that I couldn't get. I have Microsoft Office at home and I work seamlessly on Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Access docs/databases between the two computers. I have astronomy software and photo processing software and fantasy football "stuff" all over my computer.

So I have to ask, what software are you talking about?
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Re: Any Apple Owners?

Postby josebach » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:06 am

knapplc wrote:Let's put it this way - I've been using Macs exclusively at home for 15 years and I have never found a type of software that I want that I couldn't get. I have Microsoft Office at home and I work seamlessly on Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Access docs/databases between the two computers. I have astronomy software and photo processing software and fantasy football "stuff" all over my computer.

So I have to ask, what software are you talking about?


What software am I talking about? Seriously? Just because you've never needed (or admitted to needing) software that doesn't run on Macs means what exactly? Have you ever wondered why software stores have little tiny sections for Macs and great big sections for PCs? Are all of those extra boxes empty and just a ploy by Bill Gates? Did you go to Office Depot like I suggested? I'm guessing you're one of those that only browses Mac sections... and there's not a thing wrong with that. If I had a Mac, I'd do the same thing. No sense in getting your mouth watering for a steak you're never going to eat.
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Re: Any Apple Owners?

Postby knapplc » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:15 am

josebach wrote:
knapplc wrote:Let's put it this way - I've been using Macs exclusively at home for 15 years and I have never found a type of software that I want that I couldn't get. I have Microsoft Office at home and I work seamlessly on Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Access docs/databases between the two computers. I have astronomy software and photo processing software and fantasy football "stuff" all over my computer.

So I have to ask, what software are you talking about?


What software am I talking about? Seriously? Just because you've never needed (or admitted to needing) software that doesn't run on Macs means what exactly? Have you ever wondered why software stores have little tiny sections for Macs and great big sections for PCs? Are all of those extra boxes empty and just a ploy by Bill Gates? Did you go to Office Depot like I suggested? I'm guessing you're one of those that only browses Mac sections... and there's not a thing wrong with that. If I had a Mac, I'd do the same thing. No sense in getting your mouth watering for a steak you're never going to eat.

Bricks and Mortar stores aren't the only places to get software, though. If you're basing your assessment solely on stores you can walk in to, you're absolutely correct about the lack of Mac software. But the reality is that I can get software online (via download) or through the mail just as easy as pie, and I can get all the different types of software I could want that way. Unless you can tell us a kind of software, as in a type of application, that a person can NOT buy for a Mac your argument is rather spurious. Simply because storefronts don't carry Mac software does not make Mac a poor option.

It really boils down to what TBM said earlier, "So that is essentially the choice... Tons of software vs. ease of use. pick your poison." For some of us it's the ease of use/lack of crash that we like. For others it's the thrill of being different. For others it's the joy of having a really neat GUI. There are tons of reasons to get a Mac. There are tons not to get a Mac. It's just what interests you more, I guess.

As for gaming, that's really a niche market in itself. Granted it's a large niche, but it's a niche nonetheless. If the only reason you're buying a computer is for gaming, then absolutely don't get a Mac. But to denounce Macs because they don't have tons of readily available game software written for them is not a valid argument for the vast majority of computer users, most of whom are not gamers.
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Re: Any Apple Owners?

Postby beanoX3 » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:18 am

Most of the mainstream apps people use, like office productivity software do come with Mac compatibility. So I'd say most Mac users won't run into software availibility problems for the most part. But from my experience, it's the businesses that will more often see lack of software support for Macs.

I've been helping my dad set up his new small business. I was setting up his cash register system and surveilance system and both came with software only for PC. My friend's dad installs security systems for homes and businesses, and 99% of his stuff is PC only software (if the system installed is connected to a PC, that is).

Basically, it seems like home users and schools have no software availibility problems with Macs and will likely have no future problems.
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Re: Any Apple Owners?

Postby moonhead » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:26 am

in my opinion, the worst thing that happened to the mac was when they decided to become a pc. the last advantage macs had over pcs was the processor. cisc vs. risc. the processors were able to run more efficiently, faster, at a slower clock speed, and cooler than those of pcs. now they have the same processors, the same ram, and even the same operating system. so, since it's all the same, why purchase a mac?

and let's be honest, never has there been a "power user" that used macs. the only thing a mac "power user" does is video editing. and maybe, maaaaaaaaaaaayybe some autocad. which is highly doubtful.

i don't have anything against macs. i think they used to be fantastic products. but in order to save a buck in production, they sacrificed what made macs macs, and they still want to charge outrageous prices. i'll pass.

and the instruction set on the processors and chipset is what made the virus and spyware epidemic non-existant on macs. now that they are running the same processors, watch out. it won't be as widespread, because, obviously there aren't as many mac users as pc users. but you will start to deal with the problem.
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Re: Any Apple Owners?

Postby josebach » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:47 am

My motivation for posting in this thread is not to bash Macs, but rather stick up for PCs. All the negativity that's constantly aimed at Bill Gates and PCs and Microsoft just isn't fair in my opinion. It's as if people can't be unbiased and truthful about PCs because they're the big guy. I think that's BS. What's fair is fair and PCs have standardized both personal and business computing on a worldwide scale. That standardization has greatly contributed towards mankind's unprecedented technological evolvement these last 25 years. I'm sorry, but I think a litte credit is due.
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