Someone is lurking on the Cafe from ESPN! - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to General Talk

Someone is lurking on the Cafe from ESPN!

Moderator: Football Moderators

Postby flotsamnjetsam » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:15 am

Free Bagel wrote:I can't believe PTI asked the Grossman question. I expected much more from a legitimate media venue than to ask such a ridiculous question that is not even within the realm of possibility.

Maybe next week they can start a topic on whether or not Tom Brady is the biggest playoff choking QB in playoff history.

I really hope Wilbon/Kornheiser went nuts on whoever thought up that topic.



They didn't go nuts on me at all Bagel. :-b ;-)



And I still don't think it's a ridiculous topic. The only reason why it's a little unfair is because we're judging Rex on really only 1 season. He was great in a few games and horrible in a few games. Just going on what Rex has done at this point in his career, he's one of the worst QB's to ever play in a SB (IMO). Maybe not the worst, but he's close. When his career is over I might look at it differently IF he gets better. Until then I stand by my opinion even if the Bears beat the Colts. :-/
Image

Thanks to deluxe_247 for the awesome sig!
flotsamnjetsam
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterGolden Eagle EyeCafe MusketeerTrivia Time Trial ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 17169
(Past Year: 78)
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: New York State Of Mind: 18-1

Postby Free Bagel » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:18 am

flotsamnjetsam wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:I can't believe PTI asked the Grossman question. I expected much more from a legitimate media venue than to ask such a ridiculous question that is not even within the realm of possibility.

Maybe next week they can start a topic on whether or not Tom Brady is the biggest playoff choking QB in playoff history.

I really hope Wilbon/Kornheiser went nuts on whoever thought up that topic.



They didn't go nuts on me at all Bagel. :-b ;-)



And I still don't think it's a ridiculous topic. The only reason why it's a little unfair is because we're judging Rex on really only 1 season. He was great in a few games and horrible in a few games. Just going on what Rex has done at this point in his career, he's one of the worst QB's to ever play in a SB (IMO). Maybe not the worst, but he's close. When his career is over I might look at it differently IF he gets better. Until then I stand by my opinion even if the Bears beat the Colts. :-/


I just don't get it. 3200 pass yds, 23 Touchdowns, 55% completion rating, 75 QB rating. How is that even close? He's not even the worst Super Bowl QB in the last 6 years.

They wouldn't be in the Super Bowl if it wasn't for Grossman because he was the only one that came to play in the Seattle game. He was the only QB in the conference championships not to turn the ball over, and again they're never in position for their defense to dominate the Saints if Grossman doesn't win them the Seattle game where their defense, running game, and return game all stunk.

The defense gets such a pass in all this, they're just as schizo as Grossman and their season is almost a direct parallel with just a slightly later start on the schizophrenia. Fast start, then some really rough games later on, and week to week they could give up 3 points and force 5 turnovers or give up 30 points and force no turnovers.

Why no topic on whether the Bears' defense is the worst to ever play in a Super Bowl? It's hardly further from the truth than the Grossman debate.

And again...


Code: Select all
x | G |  Comp   Att   PCT   YD   Y/A  TD INT
R|  13 |   83   218  38.1  1410   6.5   6  24
2 |  14 |   203   373  54.4  2259   6.1  13  22
3 |  14 |   147   308  47.7  1887   6.1  12  12
4 |  10 |   89   180  49.4  1183   6.6  10  15
5 |   8 |   67   148  45.3   785   5.3   7   8 * - SB QB year


vs.

Code: Select all
| G |  Comp   Att   PCT   YD   Y/A   TD INT |  Rat
16      480    262  54.6  3193 6.65  23  20   73.9


How is that even close?

Then we've also got guys like David Woodley who threw for 2000 yards once in his entire career and 3000 yards never and who also threw more interceptions than touchdowns every year of his career minus one where he threw 8 touchdowns to 7 interceptions. We've got guys like Joe Kapp who never threw for 2000 yards or 20 touchdowns and turned the ball over just as often per game.

They're not even on the same plane of existence.
Image
Free Bagel
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertMock(ing) DrafterCafe Musketeer
Posts: 8495
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Titletown, FL

Postby knapplc » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:01 am

CC wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:I can't believe PTI asked the Grossman question. I expected much more from a legitimate media venue than to ask such a ridiculous question that is not even within the realm of possibility.

Maybe next week they can start a topic on whether or not Tom Brady is the biggest playoff choking QB in playoff history.

I really hope Wilbon/Kornheiser went nuts on whoever thought up that topic.


He may be the worst QB to ever play in a Superbowl, but he was the best QB to lose a Heisman to Eric Crouch... :-b


I think if you keep posting about this eventually the Heisman voters will reconsider that 2001 vote. ;-7
Image
How 'bout them Huskers!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerGolden Eagle EyeCafe MusketeerCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 18961
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's an L, not an I

Postby flotsamnjetsam » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:03 pm

Free Bagel wrote:
flotsamnjetsam wrote:
Free Bagel wrote:I can't believe PTI asked the Grossman question. I expected much more from a legitimate media venue than to ask such a ridiculous question that is not even within the realm of possibility.

Maybe next week they can start a topic on whether or not Tom Brady is the biggest playoff choking QB in playoff history.

I really hope Wilbon/Kornheiser went nuts on whoever thought up that topic.



They didn't go nuts on me at all Bagel. :-b ;-)



And I still don't think it's a ridiculous topic. The only reason why it's a little unfair is because we're judging Rex on really only 1 season. He was great in a few games and horrible in a few games. Just going on what Rex has done at this point in his career, he's one of the worst QB's to ever play in a SB (IMO). Maybe not the worst, but he's close. When his career is over I might look at it differently IF he gets better. Until then I stand by my opinion even if the Bears beat the Colts. :-/


I just don't get it. 3200 pass yds, 23 Touchdowns, 55% completion rating, 75 QB rating. How is that even close? He's not even the worst Super Bowl QB in the last 6 years.

They wouldn't be in the Super Bowl if it wasn't for Grossman because he was the only one that came to play in the Seattle game. He was the only QB in the conference championships not to turn the ball over, and again they're never in position for their defense to dominate the Saints if Grossman doesn't win them the Seattle game where their defense, running game, and return game all stunk.

The defense gets such a pass in all this, they're just as schizo as Grossman and their season is almost a direct parallel with just a slightly later start on the schizophrenia. Fast start, then some really rough games later on, and week to week they could give up 3 points and force 5 turnovers or give up 30 points and force no turnovers.

Why no topic on whether the Bears' defense is the worst to ever play in a Super Bowl? It's hardly further from the truth than the Grossman debate.

And again...


Code: Select all
x | G |  Comp   Att   PCT   YD   Y/A  TD INT
R|  13 |   83   218  38.1  1410   6.5   6  24
2 |  14 |   203   373  54.4  2259   6.1  13  22
3 |  14 |   147   308  47.7  1887   6.1  12  12
4 |  10 |   89   180  49.4  1183   6.6  10  15
5 |   8 |   67   148  45.3   785   5.3   7   8 * - SB QB year


vs.

Code: Select all
| G |  Comp   Att   PCT   YD   Y/A   TD INT |  Rat
16      480    262  54.6  3193 6.65  23  20   73.9


How is that even close?

Then we've also got guys like David Woodley who threw for 2000 yards once in his entire career and 3000 yards never and who also threw more interceptions than touchdowns every year of his career minus one where he threw 8 touchdowns to 7 interceptions. We've got guys like Joe Kapp who never threw for 2000 yards or 20 touchdowns and turned the ball over just as often per game.

They're not even on the same plane of existence.





Like I said Bagel, he's not the worst but he's close based on what he's done at this point in his career. For 4 years he's been extremely average. This year was his 1st full season and he was so up and so down that some people were calling for Griese to take over. I think he might turn out to be a better QB in the future but at this point I don't think he's proven that he's very good. So you can disagree with the people that say he's the worst and you've brought up other QB's that probably were worse. But multiple media outlets are bringing up the topic for discussion so I think it's at least worth talking about...whether you agree or disagree. You have people like you that think he's not even close to being the worst ever Super Bowl QB, but you also have people like me who think at this point in his career he's close. I'm not alone here and even the most diehard Bears' fans have to be a little nervous with Rex in there. Of course they can win and of course Rex might have a great game. But it's more likely that Rex plays the Dilfer role and the Bears win with their D & running game. If the Bears get down early I'll be shocked if Rex is able to bring them back. But even that could happen.
Image

Thanks to deluxe_247 for the awesome sig!
flotsamnjetsam
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterGolden Eagle EyeCafe MusketeerTrivia Time Trial ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 17169
(Past Year: 78)
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: New York State Of Mind: 18-1

Postby knapplc » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:36 pm

You're welcome to your opinion flotsam, but Bagel is right - to call Grossman the "worst Super Bowl QB" is over the top. He's a first-year starter with three years of bench/IR experience. You can't compare him to a fourth-year QB.

The guy isn't great and at this point he's not really all that good, but he shows flashes of brilliance and he has potential. Give him a couple of years before judging him.

Funny thing - does anyone think that if he wasn't facing Manning in the Super Bowl that this conversation about Grossman would even be happening? If it's Philip Rivers vs. Rex Grossman in this game I guarantee you we're not having this conversation. ;-)


One more thing - we're throwing out all the stats here and that's great, but the problem with the stats is that they only show one facet of this guy's affect on his team. None of us have any idea how he is in the locker room, in the huddle, during team meetings, on the practice field, etc. Those behind-the-scenes factors play a huge roll in his importance to his team.

I'm going to put more faith in the endorsement by the coaches, the players and the organization than I'm going to put into the raw numbers we have available to us. If they have faith in him, and obviously they do, that's good enough for me.
Image
How 'bout them Huskers!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerGolden Eagle EyeCafe MusketeerCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 18961
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's an L, not an I

Postby mrblitz » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:36 pm

Sean Salisbury just pm'd me. :-b
Image


Call em as I see em!
mrblitz
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 12770
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Having a coffee at the fantasy cafe.

Postby Warpigs » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:28 pm

Alkaholik wrote:I competed in a 12 team league with i believe was 4 differnt Fantasy Football websites finest....lost in the semi's to the LT owner.....got 3rd, but like they say, "if you aint 1st, your LAST!"


:,-( I won the cafe challenge baseball component last year, and still haven't been deemed a musketeer. . :,-(
Image
Warpigs
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe RankerCafe Spotter
Posts: 3054
(Past Year: 3)
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Football

Postby knapplc » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:32 pm

Warpigs wrote:
Alkaholik wrote:I competed in a 12 team league with i believe was 4 differnt Fantasy Football websites finest....lost in the semi's to the LT owner.....got 3rd, but like they say, "if you aint 1st, your LAST!"


:,-( I won the cafe challenge baseball component last year, and still haven't been deemed a musketeer. . :,-(


You mean against the Dark Siders? That doesn't earn you a Rapier - it's "in-house." If you competed against other message boards or something like that you probably qualify. PM Madison (but not right now - the server move is keeping them pretty busy) and he'll check it out.
Image
How 'bout them Huskers!
knapplc
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe RankerGolden Eagle EyeCafe MusketeerCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 18961
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: It's an L, not an I

Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:38 pm

I believe that the original poster is on to something. Today on PTI Kornheiser and Wilbon spent the first segment of the show talking about 24, Heroes and how Cole Hamels is the best thing since sliced bread then for the next 25 minutes they showed pics of the hottest women alive. They must be lurking.
Image

"I think that gay marriage should be something between a man and a woman" Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
Mookie4ever
Head Moderator
Head Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeBaseball ModHockey ModBasketball ModPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly Winner
Posts: 3067
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Livin in a powderkeg and givin off sparks

Postby flotsamnjetsam » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:07 pm

knapplc wrote:You're welcome to your opinion flotsam, but Bagel is right - to call Grossman the "worst Super Bowl QB" is over the top. He's a first-year starter with three years of bench/IR experience. You can't compare him to a fourth-year QB.

The guy isn't great and at this point he's not really all that good, but he shows flashes of brilliance and he has potential. Give him a couple of years before judging him.

Funny thing - does anyone think that if he wasn't facing Manning in the Super Bowl that this conversation about Grossman would even be happening? If it's Philip Rivers vs. Rex Grossman in this game I guarantee you we're not having this conversation. ;-)


One more thing - we're throwing out all the stats here and that's great, but the problem with the stats is that they only show one facet of this guy's affect on his team. None of us have any idea how he is in the locker room, in the huddle, during team meetings, on the practice field, etc. Those behind-the-scenes factors play a huge roll in his importance to his team.

I'm going to put more faith in the endorsement by the coaches, the players and the organization than I'm going to put into the raw numbers we have available to us. If they have faith in him, and obviously they do, that's good enough for me.



And that's exactly what I said. I never said that he's the worst. I just brought it up for discussion because at this point in his career I couldn't think of that many worse QB's that have played in a Super Bowl. I've also stated several times that it's a little unfair to Rex to make this comparison based on basically 1 full season. I also said that after his career is over he might not even be close to the worst Super Bowl QB ever.

I simply don't think he's a good QB at this point in his career. And since I'm a Super Bowl trivia geek I started thinking about QB's that have played in SB's 1-40 and I couldn't think of that many that were worse...again...at this point in Rex's career.
Image

Thanks to deluxe_247 for the awesome sig!
flotsamnjetsam
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterGolden Eagle EyeCafe MusketeerTrivia Time Trial ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 17169
(Past Year: 78)
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: New York State Of Mind: 18-1

PreviousNext

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 11:43 hours
(and 36 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact