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Postby Free Bagel » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:38 pm

flotsamnjetsam wrote:
knapplc wrote:You're welcome to your opinion flotsam, but Bagel is right - to call Grossman the "worst Super Bowl QB" is over the top. He's a first-year starter with three years of bench/IR experience. You can't compare him to a fourth-year QB.

The guy isn't great and at this point he's not really all that good, but he shows flashes of brilliance and he has potential. Give him a couple of years before judging him.

Funny thing - does anyone think that if he wasn't facing Manning in the Super Bowl that this conversation about Grossman would even be happening? If it's Philip Rivers vs. Rex Grossman in this game I guarantee you we're not having this conversation. ;-)


One more thing - we're throwing out all the stats here and that's great, but the problem with the stats is that they only show one facet of this guy's affect on his team. None of us have any idea how he is in the locker room, in the huddle, during team meetings, on the practice field, etc. Those behind-the-scenes factors play a huge roll in his importance to his team.

I'm going to put more faith in the endorsement by the coaches, the players and the organization than I'm going to put into the raw numbers we have available to us. If they have faith in him, and obviously they do, that's good enough for me.



And that's exactly what I said. I never said that he's the worst. I just brought it up for discussion because at this point in his career I couldn't think of that many worse QB's that have played in a Super Bowl. I've also stated several times that it's a little unfair to Rex to make this comparison based on basically 1 full season. I also said that after his career is over he might not even be close to the worst Super Bowl QB ever.

I simply don't think he's a good QB at this point in his career. And since I'm a Super Bowl trivia geek I started thinking about QB's that have played in SB's 1-40 and I couldn't think of that many that were worse...again...at this point in Rex's career.


David Woodley! That one should've come to mind immediately ;)

And again, there's a sizeable handful of Super Bowl QBs that wouldn't have made it out of that Seattle game.
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Postby knapplc » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:51 pm

flotsamnjetsam wrote:
knapplc wrote:You're welcome to your opinion flotsam, but Bagel is right - to call Grossman the "worst Super Bowl QB" is over the top. He's a first-year starter with three years of bench/IR experience. You can't compare him to a fourth-year QB.

The guy isn't great and at this point he's not really all that good, but he shows flashes of brilliance and he has potential. Give him a couple of years before judging him.

Funny thing - does anyone think that if he wasn't facing Manning in the Super Bowl that this conversation about Grossman would even be happening? If it's Philip Rivers vs. Rex Grossman in this game I guarantee you we're not having this conversation. ;-)


One more thing - we're throwing out all the stats here and that's great, but the problem with the stats is that they only show one facet of this guy's affect on his team. None of us have any idea how he is in the locker room, in the huddle, during team meetings, on the practice field, etc. Those behind-the-scenes factors play a huge roll in his importance to his team.

I'm going to put more faith in the endorsement by the coaches, the players and the organization than I'm going to put into the raw numbers we have available to us. If they have faith in him, and obviously they do, that's good enough for me.



And that's exactly what I said. I never said that he's the worst. I just brought it up for discussion because at this point in his career I couldn't think of that many worse QB's that have played in a Super Bowl. I've also stated several times that it's a little unfair to Rex to make this comparison based on basically 1 full season. I also said that after his career is over he might not even be close to the worst Super Bowl QB ever.

I simply don't think he's a good QB at this point in his career. And since I'm a Super Bowl trivia geek I started thinking about QB's that have played in SB's 1-40 and I couldn't think of that many that were worse...again...at this point in Rex's career.


OK, fair enough. I'm probably defending him more than your post warranted, so I get your point.

I think he's definitely in that "unpolished gem" phase. He's no Peyton Manning, but I'm interested in seeing what he turns into in the next year or two.
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Postby flotsamnjetsam » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:25 am

knapplc wrote:
flotsamnjetsam wrote:
knapplc wrote:You're welcome to your opinion flotsam, but Bagel is right - to call Grossman the "worst Super Bowl QB" is over the top. He's a first-year starter with three years of bench/IR experience. You can't compare him to a fourth-year QB.

The guy isn't great and at this point he's not really all that good, but he shows flashes of brilliance and he has potential. Give him a couple of years before judging him.

Funny thing - does anyone think that if he wasn't facing Manning in the Super Bowl that this conversation about Grossman would even be happening? If it's Philip Rivers vs. Rex Grossman in this game I guarantee you we're not having this conversation. ;-)


One more thing - we're throwing out all the stats here and that's great, but the problem with the stats is that they only show one facet of this guy's affect on his team. None of us have any idea how he is in the locker room, in the huddle, during team meetings, on the practice field, etc. Those behind-the-scenes factors play a huge roll in his importance to his team.

I'm going to put more faith in the endorsement by the coaches, the players and the organization than I'm going to put into the raw numbers we have available to us. If they have faith in him, and obviously they do, that's good enough for me.



And that's exactly what I said. I never said that he's the worst. I just brought it up for discussion because at this point in his career I couldn't think of that many worse QB's that have played in a Super Bowl. I've also stated several times that it's a little unfair to Rex to make this comparison based on basically 1 full season. I also said that after his career is over he might not even be close to the worst Super Bowl QB ever.

I simply don't think he's a good QB at this point in his career. And since I'm a Super Bowl trivia geek I started thinking about QB's that have played in SB's 1-40 and I couldn't think of that many that were worse...again...at this point in Rex's career.


OK, fair enough. I'm probably defending him more than your post warranted, so I get your point.

I think he's definitely in that "unpolished gem" phase. He's no Peyton Manning, but I'm interested in seeing what he turns into in the next year or two.



Exactly knapp. I apologize if it sounded like I was trashing Rex. That wasn't my intentions at all (even though I definitely see why a lot of people took it that way) and I totally agree with you that he has shown some glimpses of becoming a good/very good QB.
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Postby dgan » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:21 am

Back on topic...maybe it's Kornheiser? That would explain why he seemingly has no clue what is going on during MNF...he's perusing the Cafe!
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Postby joelamosobadiah » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:50 am

dgan wrote:Back on topic...maybe it's Kornheiser? That would explain why he seemingly has no clue what is going on during MNF...he's perusing the Cafe!


If he's doing that, then he isn't paying attention because he is balling his eyes out at everybody in the GC thread saying how bad he sucks. :,-(
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Postby Free Bagel » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:33 pm

flotsamnjetsam wrote:And that's exactly what I said. I never said that he's the worst. I just brought it up for discussion because at this point in his career I couldn't think of that many worse QB's that have played in a Super Bowl. I've also stated several times that it's a little unfair to Rex to make this comparison based on basically 1 full season. I also said that after his career is over he might not even be close to the worst Super Bowl QB ever.

I simply don't think he's a good QB at this point in his career. And since I'm a Super Bowl trivia geek I started thinking about QB's that have played in SB's 1-40 and I couldn't think of that many that were worse...again...at this point in Rex's career.


You can bold "at this point in Rex's career" all you want, but that doesn't make it any more true and that's what I was referring to anyways.

Once again, since people trying to argue this seem to be intent on ignoring all the other Super Bowl QBs and writing this up as if this was Super Bowl I:

Grossman: 3200yds, 23 TDs, 73.9 passer rating this year

How anyone could say that's even on the same plane of existence of a David Woodley is beyond me. He threw 48 touchdowns and 63 interceptions in his 6 year career with a completion percentage right around 50%. Grossman has put up half the numbers that Woodley put up in his entire career this year alone.

How anyone could say that's even on the same plane of existence as a Vince Ferragamo is beyond me. His abyssmal 48.8 QB rating during his Super Bowl season was up from 15.4 before it. Hardly comparable to 73.9.
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Postby flotsamnjetsam » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:42 pm

Free Bagel wrote:
flotsamnjetsam wrote:And that's exactly what I said. I never said that he's the worst. I just brought it up for discussion because at this point in his career I couldn't think of that many worse QB's that have played in a Super Bowl. I've also stated several times that it's a little unfair to Rex to make this comparison based on basically 1 full season. I also said that after his career is over he might not even be close to the worst Super Bowl QB ever.

I simply don't think he's a good QB at this point in his career. And since I'm a Super Bowl trivia geek I started thinking about QB's that have played in SB's 1-40 and I couldn't think of that many that were worse...again...at this point in Rex's career.


You can bold "at this point in Rex's career" all you want, but that doesn't make it any more true and that's what I was referring to anyways.

Once again, since people trying to argue this seem to be intent on ignoring all the other Super Bowl QBs and writing this up as if this was Super Bowl I:

Grossman: 3200yds, 23 TDs, 73.9 passer rating this year

How anyone could say that's even on the same plane of existence of a David Woodley is beyond me. He threw 48 touchdowns and 63 interceptions in his 6 year career with a completion percentage right around 50%. Grossman has put up half the numbers that Woodley put up in his entire career this year alone.

How anyone could say that's even on the same plane of existence as a Vince Ferragamo is beyond me. His abyssmal 48.8 QB rating during his Super Bowl season was up from 15.4 before it. Hardly comparable to 73.9.



Like I said Bagel. IMO he's not the worst but he's close. We'll just have to agree to disagree because I've explained my opinion and the reason why I even brought it up multiple times. Nothing more to add. :-/
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