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USC and Bush in Hot Water

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Postby Cowboys 4 life » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:05 pm

Am I the only one who can really care less about this? And I'm a UCLA fan.

I find it funny that everyone else in college is allowed to make money by using the skills they possess but the athletes can't. These guys get a job for more than min wage and they are blamed for being on the take. What are you just expected to be poor through college? I guess I don't get it.

The only downside I see to allowing these guys make money is some universities would be like the Yankees.

To me this is just as bad as recruting guys with no intention of graduating them like OSU.

These athletes should be able to make something but it should be capped.
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Postby deerayfan072 » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:08 pm

Cowboys 4 life wrote:Am I the only one who can really care less about this? And I'm a UCLA fan.

I find it funny that everyone else in college is allowed to make money by using the skills they possess but the athletes can't. These guys get a job for more than min wage and they are blamed for being on the take. What are you just expected to be poor through college? I guess I don't get it.

The only downside I see to allowing these guys make money is some universities would be like the Yankees.

To me this is just as bad as recruting guys with no intention of graduating them like OSU.

These athletes should be able to make something but it should be capped.


280,000 isn't exactly poor. I am all for giving them some money, but that is ridiculous and its against the rules right now, soyou can't do it. I don't think people between 18-20 shouldn't be allowed to drink, but i am not going to give it to them and not think i won't get in trouble.
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Postby ShoelessJoe » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:40 pm

Cowboys 4 life wrote:I find it funny that everyone else in college is allowed to make money by using the skills they possess but the athletes can't. These guys get a job for more than min wage and they are blamed for being on the take. What are you just expected to be poor through college? I guess I don't get it.


Yeah because it's not enough to give them a 100% free education that they can use for the rest of their life or a meal plan that allows them to eat as many meals on campus as they would like. They don't get anything... :-t
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Postby Free Bagel » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:47 pm

Then what about baseball players, and swimmers, and gymnists, etc? They all manage to get by just fine.

And to say football players aren't getting paid is naive. They are getting full ride scholarships, free housing, free food (meal plan), and stipends (HUGE stipends in the case of football players) for "living expenses" that go straight into their pockets because all their real living expenses are already paid for.

It's no coincidence that most every football player at a major university drives around a scooter. It's no coincidence that I see college athletes in Best Buy buying big screens half the time I'm in there.

Besides, most college students are poor anyways, it's a way of living at that point in everyone's life. They're doing just fine for themselves with their all-expense paid trip and stipends.

Are they getting paid their worth? No, not even close. But to pretend these guys are poor and just scraping by couldn't be further from reality.
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Postby eman » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:51 pm

You're all acting like this was USC's fault. USC really had nothing much to do with it, so dont say things like " They won't b/c its USC, but i think they should be punished." and all. USC will likely lose the NC at worst, and if that's the case I think it could be well deserved. Bush is really the issue at hand here...well see how it pans out.
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Postby dgan » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:11 pm

VaderFin wrote:There isnt a Federal investigation because of the NCAA....its because the Bushes claimed they were being extorted by Lloyd Lake. Oh the irony that none of this would have been uncovered if the Bushes had just kept quiet.


Oh, I see. The story didn't explain that real well...or I just misunderstood.

About Carroll going to the NFL to avoid the whole thing - that idea is crazy IMO. He will face the media several times a week, who will have no problem berating him at each conference about his former school. Sure, he can do the "I'm not going to comment on that" but that is no way to avoid the fire. He'll actually face less heat (from a PR standpoint anyway) if he stays at USC where he isn't forced to talk to the media every day.

Regardless of whether or not USC had anything explicit to do with this or not doesn't matter to the NCAA. Wisconsin lost scholarships because some players were given DISCOUNTS on shoes from a store called the Shoe Box which is a DISCOUNT SHOE STORE which offers discounts to EVERYONE. Hell, I've gotten $20 Nikes there before and I am a nobody. The players went there on their own, got a discount on some shoes, and the whole program was penalized for it.

The NCAA rarely makes sense, so don't expect anything logical to result from this.
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Postby stomperrob » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:56 am

dgan wrote:
VaderFin wrote:There isnt a Federal investigation because of the NCAA....its because the Bushes claimed they were being extorted by Lloyd Lake. Oh the irony that none of this would have been uncovered if the Bushes had just kept quiet.


Oh, I see. The story didn't explain that real well...or I just misunderstood.

About Carroll going to the NFL to avoid the whole thing - that idea is crazy IMO. He will face the media several times a week, who will have no problem berating him at each conference about his former school. Sure, he can do the "I'm not going to comment on that" but that is no way to avoid the fire. He'll actually face less heat (from a PR standpoint anyway) if he stays at USC where he isn't forced to talk to the media every day.

Regardless of whether or not USC had anything explicit to do with this or not doesn't matter to the NCAA. Wisconsin lost scholarships because some players were given DISCOUNTS on shoes from a store called the Shoe Box which is a DISCOUNT SHOE STORE which offers discounts to EVERYONE. Hell, I've gotten $20 Nikes there before and I am a nobody. The players went there on their own, got a discount on some shoes, and the whole program was penalized for it.

The NCAA rarely makes sense, so don't expect anything logical to result from this.


Lol, that reminds me of a few years back when the Seminoles got in trouble over some free Nikes and were derisevely renamed Free Sneaker University! :-b
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Postby deerayfan072 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:00 am

eman wrote:You're all acting like this was USC's fault. USC really had nothing much to do with it, so dont say things like " They won't b/c its USC, but i think they should be punished." and all. USC will likely lose the NC at worst, and if that's the case I think it could be well deserved. Bush is really the issue at hand here...well see how it pans out.


Do you think they didn't know? These Universities know what is going on and turn a blind eye. My point about they won't b/c its USC is that you will be hard pressed to see the NCAA discipline USC when everyone in the country has a Hard on for the team and they are on top playing well right now. I gurantee you if this was a lesser University they would be in deep trouble about this whether they knew or not.
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Postby HskrPwr13 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:21 pm

CC wrote:
HskrPwr13 wrote:
knapplc wrote:
dgan wrote:I am so confused. Why is there a "federal investigation" on a NCAA rule? Bush isn't in trouble other than they could possibly lose his Heisman or something...USC is in trouble, but what college isn't? They all pull this crap - it's just a matter of who they decide to catch and when.

The bottom line, though, is there isn't any law that was broken. It's just NCAA stuff...so this won't affect Bush anywhere but in the PR realm.


Until that statement is proven I'll be happy not to believe it. There are many, many institutions that remain honest and above-board in their dealings with their players and the NCAA. I would imagine corruption exists on small levels nearly everywhere simply because you cannot police every booster and adjutant to the program, but stuff on this scale is NOT common.

I wonder, if this is true, what this would mean about the future of Pete Carroll at USC. There are NFL jobs waiting for him. If the heat gets too severe I wonder if he jumps ship to the NFL?


Here. Here. I can say truthfully, that outside of the occasional $100-$500 handshake, that this hasnt happen at NU.

The gall of some of these players is almost unbelievable to me. Is another year of middle to lower-middle class that bad, that you have to risk future gains, tarnish your image and your schools, and possibly, if this had been exposed while he was still at USC, cost his teammates wins and a NC (or 2)? Considering how much his parents benefitted from this, I wonder what their level of involvment was.


How can you say that? You can't know what happens on a visit, or what happens when a booster calls up a recruit and offers him more cash than he has ever seen.

You'd like to think you know, but it isn't possible to know for sure.
For every Bush, Means, Clarett, or Fab 5 issue there are probably 10 that go unnoticed. College football is not as clean and pure as we would all like to believe.


No different than you knowing that youre mother isnt a whore, yet its not like you've been with her 24/7 during her lifetime. :-b

Sorry. Maybe its my age. But theres things you come to know. Maybe the other Husker fans will back me up here, but in Nebraska, if $250,000 were to change hands due to a football player, its gonna be found out about. We Husker fans, and to a lesser degree, much of the state's population, knew when a player shit (during the Osborne and Solich eras). Since Callahan and staff have arrived I think that has died down some since many didnt/dont know how to receive Callahan and visa versa. Finally, this is more faith than knowledge, but I will stake my reputation to defend Osborne's. No way that wouldve happened when he was in charge.

Not trying to make a case for all programs and their fans, but you asked, so I answered.
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Postby CC » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:30 pm

HskrPwr13 wrote:
CC wrote:
HskrPwr13 wrote:
knapplc wrote:
dgan wrote:I am so confused. Why is there a "federal investigation" on a NCAA rule? Bush isn't in trouble other than they could possibly lose his Heisman or something...USC is in trouble, but what college isn't? They all pull this crap - it's just a matter of who they decide to catch and when.

The bottom line, though, is there isn't any law that was broken. It's just NCAA stuff...so this won't affect Bush anywhere but in the PR realm.


Until that statement is proven I'll be happy not to believe it. There are many, many institutions that remain honest and above-board in their dealings with their players and the NCAA. I would imagine corruption exists on small levels nearly everywhere simply because you cannot police every booster and adjutant to the program, but stuff on this scale is NOT common.

I wonder, if this is true, what this would mean about the future of Pete Carroll at USC. There are NFL jobs waiting for him. If the heat gets too severe I wonder if he jumps ship to the NFL?


Here. Here. I can say truthfully, that outside of the occasional $100-$500 handshake, that this hasnt happen at NU.

The gall of some of these players is almost unbelievable to me. Is another year of middle to lower-middle class that bad, that you have to risk future gains, tarnish your image and your schools, and possibly, if this had been exposed while he was still at USC, cost his teammates wins and a NC (or 2)? Considering how much his parents benefitted from this, I wonder what their level of involvment was.


How can you say that? You can't know what happens on a visit, or what happens when a booster calls up a recruit and offers him more cash than he has ever seen.

You'd like to think you know, but it isn't possible to know for sure.
For every Bush, Means, Clarett, or Fab 5 issue there are probably 10 that go unnoticed. College football is not as clean and pure as we would all like to believe.


No different than you knowing that youre mother isnt a whore, yet its not like you've been with her 24/7 during her lifetime. :-b

Sorry. Maybe its my age. But theres things you come to know. Maybe the other Husker fans will back me up here, but in Nebraska, if $250,000 were to change hands due to a football player, its gonna be found out about. We Husker fans, and to a lesser degree, much of the state's population, knew when a player shit (during the Osborne and Solich eras). Since Callahan and staff have arrived I think that has died down some since many didnt/dont know how to receive Callahan and visa versa. Finally, this is more faith than knowledge, but I will stake my reputation to defend Osborne's. No way that wouldve happened when he was in charge.

Not trying to make a case for all programs and their fans, but you asked, so I answered.


I was more talking about boosters because I don't believe the actual university pays the players. A player can take money and the coach may never know about it.
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