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Falcons to trade Schaub to Houston

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Postby dream_017 » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:32 am

TommyZND wrote:
jake_twothousandfive wrote:
TommyZND wrote:And dream_017, How many complete bust like Ryan Leaf have been in the last 10 years? Very few, and Matt Schaub has done nothing to be in the same sentence as him.

There have been many complete busts at QB in the last ten years. 1st round QBs bust all the time, Schaub wasn't taken until the end of the third round. QB prospects probably bust more then any other position in football. Saying that it doesn't happen very often, just isn't very accurate IMO.


IMHO this is getting a little off topic, but most of those QB's who were busts may have been prevented. It usually works alot better if you give your QB a year in the league before starting him he does better. Tim Couch will never get rid of the habit of throwing off of his back foot because he was instantly started and instantly sacked. Akili Smith was fed to the wolves his rookie year and has been a nervous wreck in the pocket ever since. I think if they had been given a year to see the dramatic change from college to NFL they would have been much better QB's. And Matt Schaub has been given much more then a year....


Very few. Here is a list of QBs since 1997 drafted in the first 3 rounds(Shaub was a 3rd round pick):
Jim Druckenmiller
Charlie Batch
Jonathan Quinn
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Cade McNown
Shaun King
Brock Huard
Giovanni Carmazzi
Chris Redman
Quincy Carter
Marques Tuiasosopo
Patrick Ramsey
Josh McCown
Dave Ragone


I didn't even include a lot of the most recent drafts as the jury is still out on some of those guys.

Starting instantly and sacked often...let me think :-? Oh yeah....Peyton Manning

As Jake said, QB is the biggest crap shoot there is. QBs bust all the time and late round QBs or not highly touted QBs make it big.


TommyZND wrote:On a second note, where in the HE(double hockey sticks) do you get that he was bad at Virginia? He set 22 school records, had a career completion percentage of 67%, and started since his sophmore year there. I think somebody needs to do some research...


Here is some research from the QB juggernaut that is Cavalier football. 22 records. Wow he passed guys on the list like Shawn Moore, Scott Gardner, Aaron Brooks, Don Majkowski, Mike Groh. They have only had 1 all-american QB...ever... and it was not Schaub, it was Shawn Moore. He also had more plays at QB than any other player to ever play at UV, so that is also how you accumulate records at a QB school ;-7
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Postby Keyser_WV » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:25 am

dgan wrote:
Kensat30 wrote:The thing that I come away with from reading this thread, actually two things are:

#1 The Houston O-line is terribly underrated

#2 David Carr is terribly overrated


Carr quite possibly has been the single worst QB in the NFL the past 3 years. People who are comparing him now to Joey Harrington are right to do so. That is not because Joey Harrington is decent and has taken an undue trashing in the press, oh no. Rather Carr hasn't taken his fair share of critisim from the press. His line gets so much blame it is ridiculous. It's like blaming the hand for getting itself burnt lighting a candle with no wax versus blaming the brain for trying to light the candle in the first place.

Harrington will be out of the NFL in 3 years and by then so will Carr. If you want a more detailed explanation behind why Carr sucks, go back and read my posts from two years ago.


Do you have anything factual that would back up your opinion here? The Texans consistently blow blocking assignments, blitz pickups, and just basically get run over. They also have not had anything more than an average running game. In what way do you contend that the line is underrated?

I think the consensus here is that Carr has never had an opportunity to improve. No one is saying he's the second coming...we're just saying that after getting drilled year after year (including I think 80+ sacks his rookie year), it is in his head now. He needs a new setting where he can start over and grow as a quarterback. He still plays like a rookie because his team has never allowed him to progress past that point.

And for the record, I do say the same thing about Harrington, though with less conviction because his team wasn't quite as bad as Carr's.


I guess you didn't see my post about 3 pages ago ;-)

Ron Jaworski (who knows something about QB'ing) broke down Carr and showed without any doubt that he is very hesitant to throw the ball and at least half of his sacks are his fault.

I watched him break down game after game where receivers were open and he did not pull the trigger and got sacked.

Houston's line is not that bad.

Kensat hit it right on the head with his post and I basically said the same thing a while ago.

They overpaid for sure but David Carr is a bust. He will be a backup or out of the league in the next few years.
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Postby steelerfan513 » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:14 pm

flotsamnjetsam wrote:Trade was horrible for Houston (WAY too many high picks) and that contract is even worse. :-t :-?


Agreed. Schaub may have potential, but that isn't worth two second round picks and a trade-down in the first, and it definitely isn't work $6 million a year.
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Postby TheDiplomats » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:29 pm

CC wrote:
TheDiplomats wrote:
sublimeandy wrote:
TheDiplomats wrote:This boosts Andre Johnson's value by a lot. With someone who can throw a good deep ball, AJ will become a top 5 WR.


this is from espn...

"Schaub is tall, has a quick release and has good accuracy. He is confident and can throw well on the run, but he needs to sharpen his decision-making skills, and he doesn't have great arm strength. "

I live in Atlanta and have watched just about every game this year. I can tell you Shaub has a stronger more accurate arm then Carr. Not to mention he has mobility to get outside the pocket and hurl one up there for AJ. That's not to say Carr doesn't have mobility because he does, but once Carr is on the move, hes extremely inaccurate.

Texans biggest problem last year was that they had a very conservative playbook because Carr had no time to get rid of the ball so AJ could never go deep. Signing Shaub may not alleviate the problem, but Shaub is an excellent passer while hes moving. Not to mention the Texans OLine can only improve from here on out seeing as how they really can't get any worse.

Also, please don't quote COLLEGE scouting reports. Players do get stronger.


This clearly makes you an authority on the subject, as Schaub threw 27 passes this year, almost all of them coming in a 17 point loss in the final week of the year.

My point is this, in limited action as well as preseason, I've seen Shaub play. I watched him play a few times last year as well. I doubt you watched the Falcons in the preseason and I doubt you've seen them play every game this year. Sure it's not an excellent indicator on how well he will do, but it's the best you can get without being on the Atlanta Falcons roster. I never said I was some type of expert on the subject..you are just putting words into my mouth and trashing me for no reason. :-t :-t

If you think the OLine in Houston was the reason Carr sucked, then you are mistaken. Carr is mediocrity at it's finest and he will be exposed when he's on a team with a good OLine and he can't make any plays. But he is better then Joey Harrington.
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Postby CC » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:39 pm

TheDiplomats wrote:
CC wrote:
TheDiplomats wrote:
sublimeandy wrote:
TheDiplomats wrote:This boosts Andre Johnson's value by a lot. With someone who can throw a good deep ball, AJ will become a top 5 WR.


this is from espn...

"Schaub is tall, has a quick release and has good accuracy. He is confident and can throw well on the run, but he needs to sharpen his decision-making skills, and he doesn't have great arm strength. "

I live in Atlanta and have watched just about every game this year. I can tell you Shaub has a stronger more accurate arm then Carr. Not to mention he has mobility to get outside the pocket and hurl one up there for AJ. That's not to say Carr doesn't have mobility because he does, but once Carr is on the move, hes extremely inaccurate.

Texans biggest problem last year was that they had a very conservative playbook because Carr had no time to get rid of the ball so AJ could never go deep. Signing Shaub may not alleviate the problem, but Shaub is an excellent passer while hes moving. Not to mention the Texans OLine can only improve from here on out seeing as how they really can't get any worse.

Also, please don't quote COLLEGE scouting reports. Players do get stronger.


This clearly makes you an authority on the subject, as Schaub threw 27 passes this year, almost all of them coming in a 17 point loss in the final week of the year.

My point is this, in limited action as well as preseason, I've seen Shaub play. I watched him play a few times last year as well. I doubt you watched the Falcons in the preseason and I doubt you've seen them play every game this year. Sure it's not an excellent indicator on how well he will do, but it's the best you can get without being on the Atlanta Falcons roster. I never said I was some type of expert on the subject..you are just putting words into my mouth and trashing me for no reason. :-t :-t

If you think the OLine in Houston was the reason Carr sucked, then you are mistaken. Carr is mediocrity at it's finest and he will be exposed when he's on a team with a good OLine and he can't make any plays. But he is better then Joey Harrington.


Watching every Falcons game this year doesn't mean you know anything about Schaub since he only played significant time in one game all year, that is the point I am trying to make.

Houston got ripped, they could've probably had him for a lot less than this next year.
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Postby Humpback » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:09 pm

And the Texans' front office brilliance continues- they cut Carr, instead of working the phones and getting at least a 7th rounder for him.
14 Teams, each keep 14 players
QB: P. Manning, Schaub
RB: MJD, Westy, C. Johnson, A. Bradshaw, J. Ringer
WR: TO, Driver, J. Gage, Crabtree, J. Morgan, K. Curtis, E. Bennett, M. Sims-Walker
TE: Witten, M. Lewis
K: Gostkowski, J. Brown
D/ST: Tenn, NE
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Postby eaglesrule » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:42 pm

who is going to trade with them, when they know he will get cut? Its better to just re-work a new contract than trade and absorb the new one.
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Postby TommyZND » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:16 pm

dream_017 wrote:
TommyZND wrote:
jake_twothousandfive wrote:
TommyZND wrote:And dream_017, How many complete bust like Ryan Leaf have been in the last 10 years? Very few, and Matt Schaub has done nothing to be in the same sentence as him.

There have been many complete busts at QB in the last ten years. 1st round QBs bust all the time, Schaub wasn't taken until the end of the third round. QB prospects probably bust more then any other position in football. Saying that it doesn't happen very often, just isn't very accurate IMO.


IMHO this is getting a little off topic, but most of those QB's who were busts may have been prevented. It usually works alot better if you give your QB a year in the league before starting him he does better. Tim Couch will never get rid of the habit of throwing off of his back foot because he was instantly started and instantly sacked. Akili Smith was fed to the wolves his rookie year and has been a nervous wreck in the pocket ever since. I think if they had been given a year to see the dramatic change from college to NFL they would have been much better QB's. And Matt Schaub has been given much more then a year....


Very few. Here is a list of QBs since 1997 drafted in the first 3 rounds(Shaub was a 3rd round pick):
Jim Druckenmiller
Charlie Batch
Jonathan Quinn
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Cade McNown
Shaun King
Brock Huard
Giovanni Carmazzi
Chris Redman
Quincy Carter
Marques Tuiasosopo
Patrick Ramsey
Josh McCown
Dave Ragone


I didn't even include a lot of the most recent drafts as the jury is still out on some of those guys.

Starting instantly and sacked often...let me think :-? Oh yeah....Peyton Manning

As Jake said, QB is the biggest crap shoot there is. QBs bust all the time and late round QBs or not highly touted QBs make it big.


TommyZND wrote:On a second note, where in the HE(double hockey sticks) do you get that he was bad at Virginia? He set 22 school records, had a career completion percentage of 67%, and started since his sophmore year there. I think somebody needs to do some research...


Here is some research from the QB juggernaut that is Cavalier football. 22 records. Wow he passed guys on the list like Shawn Moore, Scott Gardner, Aaron Brooks, Don Majkowski, Mike Groh. They have only had 1 all-american QB...ever... and it was not Schaub, it was Shawn Moore. He also had more plays at QB than any other player to ever play at UV, so that is also how you accumulate records at a QB school ;-7


Peyton Manning was destined to be the best QB to ever play the game, no terrible team could stop that. Not many QB's turn there team after being started their whole rookie year, but i would love some more examples.

Get your facts straight. I never said how good he was i just stated facts. The claim was that he was bad at Virginia and it turned out to be the complete opposite. And he also set the Atlantic Coast Conference for most accurate passer ever, (67%). Theres its not just a school anymore, its a whole conference.
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Postby Humpback » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:57 pm

eaglesrule wrote:who is going to trade with them, when they know he will get cut? Its better to just re-work a new contract than trade and absorb the new one.


It's the teams job to get a buzz going, act like there are a few teams interested in him, so they can get offers. Instead, they "leaked" that they were going to cut him if they couldn't find any takers. It's not like there was a hard deadline coming up, they could've retained his rights for a while and still negotiated with teams. His contract would've been reworked if he was traded anyway, it happens all of the time. Funny how Texans fans were saying "well, if we could get a 3rd or 4th for Carr, the Schaub deal wouldn't be as bad". They get nada for him. Someone would've given a 2nd day pick for him if they were interested- it guarantees he's on their roster, where as now as a FA, he can go wherever he wants (hypothetically). I guess they just wanted to get it over with and move on, but man, they've made some poor decisions lately.
14 Teams, each keep 14 players
QB: P. Manning, Schaub
RB: MJD, Westy, C. Johnson, A. Bradshaw, J. Ringer
WR: TO, Driver, J. Gage, Crabtree, J. Morgan, K. Curtis, E. Bennett, M. Sims-Walker
TE: Witten, M. Lewis
K: Gostkowski, J. Brown
D/ST: Tenn, NE
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Postby Kensat30 » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:59 pm

For anyone throwing out the "Texan's are paying Schaub too much" card. Do you guys realize that $6 mil a year is chump change for a starting QB in the NFL? That's why this was such a great deal for Houston in the first place IMO. Sure, they are gambling on a somewhat unproven player, but how else are you going to lock up (long term) a potential starting NFL QB that cheap nowadays? They didn't even have to give up a single 1st round draft pick to get the guy.

Compare that to whoever takes Jemarcus Russell with a top3 pick, and what they are paying. A top3 pick is worth way more than 2 seconds, and it will be much more costly than $6 mil a year, especially when you factor in the guaranteed money. Schaub is more ready to start for his team than any rookie as well, he actually has veteran NFL gameplanning experience along with his minimal NFL game action experience.
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