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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:22 pm

FBBVirgin wrote:My response, Omaha, was to your sarcastic reply to my being against organized religion. Let me ask you? Does your "god" and your religion practice tolerance? As in, when someone simply states that they are against organized religion, if you disagree you can have a mature discussion with them, but by mocking them you are aren't following your doctrines? Just curious.

I was baited into this debate and that was my fault for taking the bait.


I was genuinely curious what you had against organized religion, as if it's a bad idea. As if it doesn't offer hope to millions of people every day. As if it doesn't prompt people to do the right thing every day. Yeah, you're right, giving people the option to serve a God in their own way is a terrible idea and Americans should join your fight against it. In fact, let's go back 200 years or so and just reverse this whole freedom and liberty thing we set up in the first place.
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Postby FBBVirgin » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:30 pm

Omaha Red Sox wrote:
FBBVirgin wrote:My response, Omaha, was to your sarcastic reply to my being against organized religion. Let me ask you? Does your "god" and your religion practice tolerance? As in, when someone simply states that they are against organized religion, if you disagree you can have a mature discussion with them, but by mocking them you are aren't following your doctrines? Just curious.

I was baited into this debate and that was my fault for taking the bait.


I was genuinely curious what you had against organized religion, as if it's a bad idea. As if it doesn't offer hope to millions of people every day. As if it doesn't prompt people to do the right thing every day. Yeah, you're right, giving people the option to serve a God in their own way is a terrible idea and Americans should join your fight against it. In fact, let's go back 200 years or so and just reverse this whole freedom and liberty thing we set up in the first place.


It is hilarious to me that instead of just engaging in simple conversation, you feel the need to be extremely sarcastic and mock me. It is unreal.

I also laugh that freedom and liberty go hand in hand with Christianity. Because I am not a Christian, I am not free? What?!?

Here is the origin of this nonsense


I completely understand exactly what you are saying. Being in the minority for my views with my friends (and let me preface this by stating that if i had to classify said views, it would be more towards an agnostic side...I am not saying that there isn't a god, but I am strongly against organized religion)


All I was doing was explaining my views for the sake of the discussion. You decided to take that and mock me? That doesn't sound very "Christian", does it?
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:41 pm

FBBVirgin wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:
FBBVirgin wrote:My response, Omaha, was to your sarcastic reply to my being against organized religion. Let me ask you? Does your "god" and your religion practice tolerance? As in, when someone simply states that they are against organized religion, if you disagree you can have a mature discussion with them, but by mocking them you are aren't following your doctrines? Just curious.

I was baited into this debate and that was my fault for taking the bait.


I was genuinely curious what you had against organized religion, as if it's a bad idea. As if it doesn't offer hope to millions of people every day. As if it doesn't prompt people to do the right thing every day. Yeah, you're right, giving people the option to serve a God in their own way is a terrible idea and Americans should join your fight against it. In fact, let's go back 200 years or so and just reverse this whole freedom and liberty thing we set up in the first place.


It is hilarious to me that instead of just engaging in simple conversation, you feel the need to be extremely sarcastic and mock me. It is unreal.

I also laugh that freedom and liberty go hand in hand with Christianity. Because I am not a Christian, I am not free? What?!?

Here is the origin of this nonsense


I completely understand exactly what you are saying. Being in the minority for my views with my friends (and let me preface this by stating that if i had to classify said views, it would be more towards an agnostic side...I am not saying that there isn't a god, but I am strongly against organized religion)


All I was doing was explaining my views for the sake of the discussion. You decided to take that and mock me? That doesn't sound very "Christian", does it?


You've been dodging my questions and I've been a little sensitive towards your comments ever since you suggested that Marines were bloodthirsty savages. So I apologize if I haven't been as nice. And to answer your "...doesn't sound very Christian..." comment, let's be honest. You don't know what a Christian is supposed to sound like. I tell you one thing, we had a good example of what a Christian is supposed to be 2000 years ago and He wasn't a pushover. And neither am I. I don't have to be nice. Your impression of what a Christian is is inaccurate.

As to freedom and liberty, I'll spell it out for you. One of the primary reasons we are here, as Americans, is so we can practice our respective religions (or lackthereof) freely. You said you were against organized religion. Did you word it wrong or slip up and tell a public forum how you really feel?
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Postby Goatwhacker » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:10 pm

joelamosobadiah wrote:
Yeah, kinda like the way that he is trying to eat the kid here. 8-o ;-7

Image
:-b



I know you didn't mean anything by making a joke, but this is a pretty famous picture. The little girl had just been injured in a bombing and the soldier was taking her to a military hospital as opposed to an Iraqi hospital in hopes she would get better care. The little girl later died at the military hospital.

It's one of those pics that makes me hug my own kids a little tighter.
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Postby FBBVirgin » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:24 pm

Omaha Red Sox wrote:
FBBVirgin wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:
FBBVirgin wrote:My response, Omaha, was to your sarcastic reply to my being against organized religion. Let me ask you? Does your "god" and your religion practice tolerance? As in, when someone simply states that they are against organized religion, if you disagree you can have a mature discussion with them, but by mocking them you are aren't following your doctrines? Just curious.

I was baited into this debate and that was my fault for taking the bait.


I was genuinely curious what you had against organized religion, as if it's a bad idea. As if it doesn't offer hope to millions of people every day. As if it doesn't prompt people to do the right thing every day. Yeah, you're right, giving people the option to serve a God in their own way is a terrible idea and Americans should join your fight against it. In fact, let's go back 200 years or so and just reverse this whole freedom and liberty thing we set up in the first place.


It is hilarious to me that instead of just engaging in simple conversation, you feel the need to be extremely sarcastic and mock me. It is unreal.

I also laugh that freedom and liberty go hand in hand with Christianity. Because I am not a Christian, I am not free? What?!?

Here is the origin of this nonsense


I completely understand exactly what you are saying. Being in the minority for my views with my friends (and let me preface this by stating that if i had to classify said views, it would be more towards an agnostic side...I am not saying that there isn't a god, but I am strongly against organized religion)


All I was doing was explaining my views for the sake of the discussion. You decided to take that and mock me? That doesn't sound very "Christian", does it?


You've been dodging my questions and I've been a little sensitive towards your comments ever since you suggested that Marines were bloodthirsty savages. So I apologize if I haven't been as nice. And to answer your "...doesn't sound very Christian..." comment, let's be honest. You don't know what a Christian is supposed to sound like. I tell you one thing, we had a good example of what a Christian is supposed to be 2000 years ago and He wasn't a pushover. And neither am I. I don't have to be nice. Your impression of what a Christian is is inaccurate.

As to freedom and liberty, I'll spell it out for you. One of the primary reasons we are here, as Americans, is so we can practice our respective religions (or lackthereof) freely. You said you were against organized religion. Did you word it wrong or slip up and tell a public forum how you really feel?


I guess I cannot have a discussion with you. You are taking what I say and making something completely different out of it. I don't have the energy to keep spelling what I said out and then having you completely twist what I write. Marines are bloodthirsty savages now?

And you are comparing yourself to Jesus Christ. Wow.
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Postby FBBVirgin » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:26 pm

Also, my stating that I am against organized religion in no way means I am against freedom of religion.

Note the word "I" in the statement I am against organized religion. I don't care what you or whoever else believes. Everyone has the right to practice any religion.

"I" have every right to be against organized religion. I am sure "you" are against my way of thinking.
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:21 pm

FBBVirgin wrote:I guess I cannot have a discussion with you. You are taking what I say and making something completely different out of it. I don't have the energy to keep spelling what I said out and then having you completely twist what I write. Marines are bloodthirsty savages now?

And you are comparing yourself to Jesus Christ. Wow.


I have never once, and never will, compare myself to Jesus. I'm not even in the WWJD crowd because I understand how impossible that is. I can strive to be as 'perfect' as possible, but I will fail. Over and over again. But I have not here.

You insinuated earlier, for some reason, that some Marines have done bad things, like:
FBBVirgin wrote:killed innocent people for fun while their "superiors" look the other way

What is the point of that? That's exactly what irked me after being one of the first ones to point out that this certainly was a story aimed at a particular audience. If I'm such an intolerant Christian wouldn't I try to defend the supposed article instead of pointing out that it's fake, but amusing to some of us anyway?

FBBVirgin wrote:Note the word "I" in the statement I am against organized religion. I don't care what you or whoever else believes.


Maybe I'm slow, but this doesn't make sense to me. You are against organized religion, but you don't care if that's what I believe? You certainly do care if you're against it aren't you?

FBBVirgin wrote:Yeah, I understand what you are saying. I went off on a different tangent when someone was making marines to be completely by the book, never do anything wrong types of people.


And who made Marines out to be completely by the book? I have a great respect for Marines and am not going to say anything negative about a class of people that have the reputation as the Marines. Why would I? How accurate would that be that I would take a couple examples and make a generalization like that? That's what you did and that's why I'm not being the nice Christian you, apparently, thought I was going to be.

And why, exactly, can't you have a discussion with me? You say I've been twisting your words around. Where have I done that? I honestly apologize if I've misquoted you in any way. I hate it when people do that with me so I certainly wouldn't want to be guilty of it. Point it out and I'll own it. The only irrational comments I've made were directly related to yours.
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Postby FBBVirgin » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:10 pm

Instances in which I believe you twisted what i said

Yeah, you're right, giving people the option to serve a God in their own way is a terrible idea and Americans should join your fight against it. In fact, let's go back 200 years or so and just reverse this whole freedom and liberty thing we set up in the first place.


That was in response to me simply saying I am against organized religion

since you suggested that Marines were bloodthirsty savages


I never said anything about Marines being bloodthirsty savages. My whole original intent in bringing up the fact that Marines are imperfect and have murdered innocent civilians in the past was a direct response to someone saying that Marines follow strict guideline and are held to strict rules and regulations. I was simply stating that marines in the past have murdered innocents while their superiors look the other way. No way anyone can deny that.

I can be against something and be alright with someone else partaking in it. A perfect example (since the topic of christianity is up in the air) would be homosexuality. It is possible for someone to be against homosexuality and not care if someone else does it. Maybe it is the word "Against" that is confusing you. I apologize if I wasn't clearer. If re-phrasing is necessary, I do not adhere to organizing in the name of religion. You and everyone else has every right in the world to sit in your churches, but it isn't for me.

You feel you cannot say anything negative about Marines based on a few examples. I say no one can put them on this glorified pedestal as a whole. I am not saying that all Marines are immoral or even that the majority of marines are immoral. It is only a select few and it is unfortunate. But I feel that if we glorify them as a whole and turn a blind eye to the ones that do commit horrible acts, then we are encouraging that behavior.

Obviously you and I are passionate with our views. I feel strongly that if this conversation were to take place in person, then it would be more effective (so much can be lost when words are typed). I am going to leave this one alone from now on (I have been typing all this while at work and I would prefer to keep my job!). I will end this (on my side) by saying we should all be grateful that this debate can happen.
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:37 pm

Nice chatting with you FBB. Now get back to work! }:-) :-b ;-) ;-D
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Postby houstonherdfan » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:20 pm

RWLongy4 wrote:Right in what he said or not he didn't deserve to be knocked out. Dan makes a good point... he should have the freedom to say what he likes, after all free speech is one of the foundations of our country. I understand that his message was offensive and that this story isn't real but the proper action would have been to walk out not jack him.



Well, I don't consider this a free speech issue. The students in the room were paying to be taught a particular subject not be subjected to the instructors personal beliefs.

If the instructor was standing outside the classroom in the hall then yes free speech.

Unless this was a class that involved the study of religous beliefs, that statement had no business being made in the classroom.
You could think of government workers like teenagers. You pay them an allowance, but do you get any work out them? They eat the food, put their feet on the furniture and complain loudly whenever they are unhappy.
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