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Toilet bowl ideas

Postby mrmommasboys » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:14 pm

Hey guys.....I'm a commish in a partial keeper auction league. We keep 3 total. 1 franchise player(which I am increasing to 2) and 2 Restricted Free Agents which the owner has last right to match once bidding ends.

I'm looking for some ideas to help prevent end of the year dumps. In otherwords, alot of guys will make unbalanced trades for a potential low priced franchise player(i.e. this year JAddai will be at 14 bucks) So you may see a deal like SJax and SMith for JAddai and JHorn come the trade deadline.

I already increased the number of franchise players for next year but I'm looking for any other ideas where guys may be hesitant to give too much. One idea that works in a draft league is to have a toilet bowl playoff where the winner gets the first pick. I can't do that in an auction league so I need some ideas for the same type of thing. Maybe give the team extra money towards the auction? Something? Any ideas?

p.s. We dont' have a veto system just cause we dont 'believe in it and it doesn't work with our keeper system. Any other ideas tho?

Thanks.
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Postby mattb47 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:19 pm

There will be no way to keep those kinds of trades in check unless you have some sort of veto system. Just because it's a keeper league doesn't mean that some collusion and lopsided deals shouldn't be vetoed sometimes. That is a rule that must be changed if you want to get this problem under control, in an auction league you have much fewer options on finishing last like this, and so I think you simply have to implement a veto system and end the ridiculous trades like that.
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Postby Felix the Cat » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:26 pm

I'd say that the dollar value on players is part of their overall value and thus makes for trades that you wouldn't consider balanced in an ordinary league. I don't think it's something that needs to be discouraged.
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Postby mattb47 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:35 pm

Felix the Cat wrote:I'd say that the dollar value on players is part of their overall value and thus makes for trades that you wouldn't consider balanced in an ordinary league. I don't think it's something that needs to be discouraged.


There needs to be the possibility of a veto though, no matter how much Addai may cost, SJax and Smith for Addai and Horn is too lopsided to be allowed.
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Postby treat24 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:03 pm

wow, a keeper league where people dump rosters...? just kick them out of the league... i've never heard of that in a keeper league... crazy...

we have a toilet bowl and you get a miniture toilet bowl for a trophy...

we do not have a veto clause cuz... well, it's never ever happened and we've been around and changing owners from time to time since 92...

i'm thinking that you guys might need a veto clause if this is happening. otherwise get new owners... IMHO doing that is good enough reason to kick them out
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Postby mrmommasboys » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:50 pm

There isn't any collusion or cheating involved in these trades. Which is the only reason that I would EVER believe in a veto system. I've seen to many trades "vetoed" for numerous reasons but then turn out absolutely fine.

This league is unique. We have ONE franchise player. If someone is out of the playoffs and has Shaun at 75 and RWayne at 35 for next year it absolutely makes sense to trade the two of those guys for a JAddai at 15 dollars. I'm just trying to limit the number of these deals and make people think twice before giving up TOO much.
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Postby Felix the Cat » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:34 am

mattb47 wrote:
Felix the Cat wrote:I'd say that the dollar value on players is part of their overall value and thus makes for trades that you wouldn't consider balanced in an ordinary league. I don't think it's something that needs to be discouraged.


There needs to be the possibility of a veto though, no matter how much Addai may cost, SJax and Smith for Addai and Horn is too lopsided to be allowed.


...and this is EXACTLY why I'm not too fond of veto systems. You're substituting your relative valuations of players for those of the trading parties, and I don't think that's a good way to run a league. Everyone is entitled to his or her own subjective valuations of players, especially in the off-season. If I have this gut feeling that LT is going to tear his ACL in the preseason, and that Cedric Benson is going to absolutely tear it up in Chicago, I have every right to trade LT for Benson, even though you might not like the trade.

This is especially true in a league setup like this, where non-skill factors such as salary come into play. If SJax carries a $80 price tag while Addai carries a $14 one, I could very well see someone making this trade if he believes that he'll be able to use that extra cash to pick up, say, Travis Henry or Willis McGahee.

The bottom line is that everyone is entitled to his or her subjective valuation of each player, and is entitled to make trades based on these valuations. You are NOT entitled to veto a trade by imposing your subjective valuations upon the traded players, unless of course the rules are stated as such at the beginning of the league.
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Postby Kilroy » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:12 am

mattb47 wrote:
Felix the Cat wrote:I'd say that the dollar value on players is part of their overall value and thus makes for trades that you wouldn't consider balanced in an ordinary league. I don't think it's something that needs to be discouraged.


There needs to be the possibility of a veto though, no matter how much Addai may cost, SJax and Smith for Addai and Horn is too lopsided to be allowed.


How is it "too lopsided to be allowed"? Shouldn't the respective owners be allowed to make that decision for themselves? Maybe the team giving up Jackson and Smith is ridiculously stacked at those positions but wants to free up money to go after a top-flight QB. H**l, maybe he's just an idiot. Either way, without knowing all the circumstances behind that kinda deal (of which there can be a buttload in any league involving "salaries") making that kind of blanket statement is one of the reasons why I generally don't care for league vote vetoes.

How an individual owner runs his individual team is his business. Period. What seems insane to you may seem perfectly reasonable to him, and unless you have evidence he's colluding that's his right.

The idea of awarding a Auction $ "bonus" to the Toilet Bowl Winner could be a decent incentive, and is probably as close to the "first pick" reward offered in some leagues as you can get in your format. You don't want the bonus to be so big that it rewards failure at the expense of competitive balance, but it would give bottom-feeders who don't sell low a better chance to rebuild, and while it might not alleviate your problem altogether it will at least give owners something to consider before they sell out altogether.
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Postby treat24 » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:54 am

I'm never a fan of veto leagues... never understood it... the parties involved are the only ones that should matter in evaluating a trade... that being said... collusion is ridiculous and should be vetoed... you're in a pickle man
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Postby mrmommasboys » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:14 pm

Kilroy1872 wrote:
mattb47 wrote:
Felix the Cat wrote:I'd say that the dollar value on players is part of their overall value and thus makes for trades that you wouldn't consider balanced in an ordinary league. I don't think it's something that needs to be discouraged.


There needs to be the possibility of a veto though, no matter how much Addai may cost, SJax and Smith for Addai and Horn is too lopsided to be allowed.


How is it "too lopsided to be allowed"? Shouldn't the respective owners be allowed to make that decision for themselves? Maybe the team giving up Jackson and Smith is ridiculously stacked at those positions but wants to free up money to go after a top-flight QB. H**l, maybe he's just an idiot. Either way, without knowing all the circumstances behind that kinda deal (of which there can be a buttload in any league involving "salaries") making that kind of blanket statement is one of the reasons why I generally don't care for league vote vetoes.

How an individual owner runs his individual team is his business. Period. What seems insane to you may seem perfectly reasonable to him, and unless you have evidence he's colluding that's his right..


I couldn't agree more with you. I've NEVER believed in vetoes unless there is CLEAR evidence of dumping. Trading Addai at 14 for SJax at 80 and Smith at 45 when you can only franchise ONE player most certainly makes sense.

I think either a monetary prize(something that is less than the top prizes) but still gives some incentive to completely NOT to gut your team. I also like the idea of more auction dollars although I may get resistance there.
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