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Witnesses watch 91 year old man get beaten

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Postby joelamosobadiah » Thu May 17, 2007 8:24 am

Omaha Red Sox wrote:
Sandrock wrote:I can say with certainty that I would have rushed to his aid, possibility of getting shot or not. It's about doing the right thing, and the right thing is not standing back and watching cause you "might" get shot.


maddog60 wrote:We need not fear evil men, but rather the apathy of good men.


;-D

Maybe if more good people did the right thing the bad people would be less inclined to think they'd be getting away with things. He obviously did not even consider the fact that those people might have jumped in and stopped him. He didn't even seem to care that they were standing over there.


Which makes me wonder if there is more to the story. There was talk earlier about the possibility of a drug deal or something. Well, now I am nearly a bit curious if maybe the "bystanders" and the attacker were doing something and the old man was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
:-?

Who knows, but bottom line is that its sick.

Oh and also, in the VAST majority of cases, if somebody would have just yelled and started in that direction the dood would have hopped in the car and hightailed it out of there.
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Postby dream_017 » Thu May 17, 2007 9:18 am

It always comes back to Seinfeld

A Good Samaritan law was featured in the May 1998 series finale of the popular NBC sitcom Seinfeld, in which the show's four main characters were all prosecuted and sentenced to one year in jail for making fun of (rather than helping) an overweight man who was getting robbed at gunpoint. In reality, while Massachusetts (where the crime is committed) does have a Good Samaritan law requiring passers-by to report a crime in progress, the most stringent punishment the characters could have suffered under those circumstances would have been a $500-$2500 fine (assuming they were prosecuted under state law).

The fact that Good Samaritan Laws in the United States do not include a citizen's duty to assist, was featured in an episode of the second season of the show Desperate Housewives. Character Bree Van de Kamp is threatened by her son to be exposed for having stood by while a man she used to have an affair with committed suicide. She hires a lawyer who explains that she specifically was not under any requirement to assist this person.
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu May 17, 2007 9:28 am

wake wrote:It's easy to sit here and say that we would have rushed to helped the 91 year-old man without a second thought. However, it's important to remember that this was happening in the middle of Detroit where it's common to be shot over a matter like this. What if the attacker also had a gun with him (a very real possibility for a carjacker)? Considering how little remorse he felt at beating a 91 year-old man, he would have had no problems shooting anyone who tried to attack him.

Knowing that there was a decent chance you could be killed (and what that might mean to your family) if you tried to defend the man from getting further beaten, can you say for certainty that you would've rushed to his aid? I'd like to think I would but there's no way I'll ever know for sure unless I actually find myself facing that situation.


Well, I would think that in an instance like that, we wouldn't be going through a mental flowchart. More like see what's going on and react. I would also like to add that for all of the people here saying that they would intervene, myself included, it's really easy to sit at your PC and make that claim. You never know what would happen until it happens.
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Postby lmcjaho » Thu May 17, 2007 9:47 am

Lofunzo wrote:Well, I would think that in an instance like that, we wouldn't be going through a mental flowchart. More like see what's going on and react. I would also like to add that for all of the people here saying that they would intervene, myself included, it's really easy to sit at your PC and make that claim. You never know what would happen until it happens.


About ten years ago I was riding the metro home from college and a gang of kids started harassing a bunch of people. I was standing up at one end of the car with my back to it and my walkman on so I don't know how long things had been going on but when the song stopped and I heard the commotion I turned and saw about 10 kids (say 15yr-olds?) and they were basically robbing a group of private-school kids while a bunch of people stood/sat there watching.

One guy in his twenties or so had started to intervene and he was surrounded by 6 of them and while no actual blows were thrown at that point it certainly seemed like it was going to come to it. I remember being totally disgusted at the rest of the passengers at that end of the car because they were all ignoring it and hoping they'd be ignored in turn.

I immediately headed to help out and I grabbed one kid by the back of the neck and shoved him away from the younger kid he was busy patting down for a wallet. As soon as this kid's friends saw me I had like 4 of them fan out in front of me trying to surround me like they did to the other guy - but I was a bit smarter than him and I was standing in the chokepoint between two sets of seats so the best they could get was a semi-flank position.

The kid that I grabbed took point and tried to get back some dignity in front of his friends by standing up to me. I told him if he took another step towards me or any of the other kids I would beat him silly and he reached into his jacket and said something gangsta about "popping a cap in your ass". I had a bag with a couple of cans of Coke in my right hand, and as soon as he reached into his jacket I was already planning to crack open his skull with them if I had to so I calmly told him if his hand didn't come out empty then I was going to shove whatever it did contain up his ass when I was done with him. He must have realized how serious I was and how little his "threat" impressed me because he took his hand out slowly and backed off right away...

I never had a chance to intervene with the other group that surrounded the other good samaritan because at that point the car stopped at the next station and they all took off running...

I'm pretty sure if I saw something like that old man getting his head beat in I would have grabbed my tire-iron and clocked the assailant first and worried about consequences later...
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Thu May 17, 2007 9:52 am

lmcjaho ... ;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D ;-D
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Postby Lofunzo » Thu May 17, 2007 10:06 am

lmcjaho wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:Well, I would think that in an instance like that, we wouldn't be going through a mental flowchart. More like see what's going on and react. I would also like to add that for all of the people here saying that they would intervene, myself included, it's really easy to sit at your PC and make that claim. You never know what would happen until it happens.


About ten years ago I was riding the metro home from college and a gang of kids started harassing a bunch of people. I was standing up at one end of the car with my back to it and my walkman on so I don't know how long things had been going on but when the song stopped and I heard the commotion I turned and saw about 10 kids (say 15yr-olds?) and they were basically robbing a group of private-school kids while a bunch of people stood/sat there watching.

One guy in his twenties or so had started to intervene and he was surrounded by 6 of them and while no actual blows were thrown at that point it certainly seemed like it was going to come to it. I remember being totally disgusted at the rest of the passengers at that end of the car because they were all ignoring it and hoping they'd be ignored in turn.

I immediately headed to help out and I grabbed one kid by the back of the neck and shoved him away from the younger kid he was busy patting down for a wallet. As soon as this kid's friends saw me I had like 4 of them fan out in front of me trying to surround me like they did to the other guy - but I was a bit smarter than him and I was standing in the chokepoint between two sets of seats so the best they could get was a semi-flank position.

The kid that I grabbed took point and tried to get back some dignity in front of his friends by standing up to me. I told him if he took another step towards me or any of the other kids I would beat him silly and he reached into his jacket and said something gangsta about "popping a cap in your ass". I had a bag with a couple of cans of Coke in my right hand, and as soon as he reached into his jacket I was already planning to crack open his skull with them if I had to so I calmly told him if his hand didn't come out empty then I was going to shove whatever it did contain up his ass when I was done with him. He must have realized how serious I was and how little his "threat" impressed me because he took his hand out slowly and backed off right away...

I never had a chance to intervene with the other group that surrounded the other good samaritan because at that point the car stopped at the next station and they all took off running...

I'm pretty sure if I saw something like that old man getting his head beat in I would have grabbed my tire-iron and clocked the assailant first and worried about consequences later...


And you have something to go by. I am referring to the group of people, again, myself included, that sit at their comfy computer seat while never having anything like this happen to them before. It's really easy to sit in that situation and say that you would have definitely intervened but, when the pooh hits the fan, I would imagine that we would be talking about a different scenario for many of us here. It's not necessarily a bad thing, either. It's just reality.

Back to the "mental flowchart" thing, it seems like you didn't use it, either. In those situations, I would assume that it is usually just a reactionary thing when you intervene. Those that actually take the time to think about it were more than likely those watching and doing nothing.
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Postby lmcjaho » Thu May 17, 2007 10:56 am

Lofunzo wrote:Back to the "mental flowchart" thing, it seems like you didn't use it, either. In those situations, I would assume that it is usually just a reactionary thing when you intervene. Those that actually take the time to think about it were more than likely those watching and doing nothing.


Oh for sure - if I had thought it through at the time the butt end of my pool cue would have been in my hands when I intervened instead of safely ensconced in the case across my back...
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Thu May 17, 2007 11:05 am

I've been involved in a handful of skirmishes when I was working in hotels. One in particular involved a call we received about someone possibly being beaten in another room. Two of us approached the room, but we denied entry after we knocked on the door. We heard things breaking and crashing and a woman screaming so we got the door open. This man yelled at us and told us to get out of there that it wasn't our business and so on, then proceeded to punch his girlfriend/wife in the face in front of us. So I tackled him and tried to hold him down on the floor while my enormous, though meek maintenance man is freaking out. So he holds the guy's legs and I get his arm twisted behind his back. The cops are called and I tell the guy I'll let him go if he sits on the floor on the other side of the room. He says he will, but when we let him go he tries for the door. I wrestled him onto the couch and manage to get his arm twisted behind his back again. After what seemed like forever, and the 3 of us getting very tired, I offer to let him go and sit down again. He actually complied this time though he sat over there and cussed and insulted us and his girlfriend/wife the entire time till the cops showed up.

There have been a few instances where I or another employee have had to intervene. This particular one happened to be the most violent that I recall where I actually had to force the issue.
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Postby terpfan » Thu May 17, 2007 1:00 pm

I'm glad the rest of you guys are heroes, but if I thought there was a possibility I would get shot, no way am I rushing in there. If the guy doesnt have a weapon, sure. (and that seems to be the case here?) But I'm not about to rush up to someone with a gun.
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Postby Omaha Red Sox » Thu May 17, 2007 2:15 pm

terpfan wrote:I'm glad the rest of you guys are heroes, but if I thought there was a possibility I would get shot, no way am I rushing in there. If the guy doesnt have a weapon, sure. (and that seems to be the case here?) But I'm not about to rush up to someone with a gun.


What if you do nothing and he shoots other people? Could have done something. Maybe would have been killed, but at least you would have tried.
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