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HELP! trying to make a near perfect league! advice please!

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HELP! trying to make a near perfect league! advice please!

Postby Boise State Broncos » Thu May 31, 2007 1:27 am

this is my first post and it wont be the last. So I started a league in Fanball. I was in a league in faball last year but the commish really F'd it up by making it a dynasty and jacking things up really bad. So this year I thought I would start my own and fix all the mistakes. thats where some input would be greatly appreciated. here are a few things I am having trouble with. but before I do that let me explain some things. Its a re draft every year, its head to head, there will be claim system, and there will be a playoff, and there are three divisions of four teams!

1. Trading. I want people to make trades freely, but freedom has its consequences. I don't want shady trades going on last minute on a sunday morning. but I don't want to be the overlord and pick what trades go through and which ones do not! makes me a bad guy. Trade committees don't work. thats what we did last year and it was terrible! everyone has hidden agendas and people get jealous. any suggestions?

2. roster spots. I wanted to do 1 QB 2 RBs 2 WRs 1 TE 1 kicker and one flex position with a twist. the twist on the flex is that you can use the flex spot for a WR, TE, or a RB with the exception being that the RB is a team mate of one of your starting RBs. do you think this is a good Idea? Last year we had a flex that you could use for RB WR TE but everyone of course used it for a RB and two teams had three STRONG Rbs and they were unstopable. I though that since most teams are using a RB committee that you could have say, Willie Parker, Fred Taylor and then pick up Maurice Jones Drew to put in the flex! if you had just willie and fred thats only like haveing 1 and 1/2 RBs. smell the mud I am stepping in here? I would moniter this of course, but I think it adds a whole cool new strategy to your roster.

3. point scoring. what scoring combonations level the points between QBs RBs WRs? I have been playing for about five years and it seems that in every league I have been in or created there is always a lopsided scoring combo for a postition. last year the dumb commish felt that WRs were too weak and added .5 points for a reception along with 10 yards for one point and 6 for a TD. YA, WRs totally dominated in that league! LAME!

Well, thats it for now, please give me some advice on what to do and what not to do. Thanks!
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Postby dgan » Thu May 31, 2007 5:01 am

Please don't take this the wrong way, but my honest opinion from what I see in this post, I don't think you're going to be well received as a Commish. But if you have your heart set on it, I'll offer some advice/suggestions.

First, remember that it may be your league, but fantasy football isn't much fun to play by yourself. That means you need a bunch of other owners that consider it "their league" as well. The less it is about you having it your way, the more successful it is going to be from a participation standpoint. So while you can set the initial rules, you should allow rules to be changed by a league vote. That way it is more democratic and less of owners being beaten into submission by a tyrant.

Ok, now your topics:

1. Trade rules (as with anything else) MUST BE IN WRITING. Have a rule book. You can find basic rules on nearly any fantasy site, and then adjust them the way you want. If you really want to prevent collusion have trades in 48 hours before kickoff of the first game - owners have 24 hours to vote on the trade. Simple majority rules with the Commish as the tiebreaking vote, if necessary. Of course, this also tends to suffocate trading because people don't want to go through the hassle, and stupid owners will vote against trades for dumb reasons...not just to prevent collusion. Therefore, my preference is to just allow trades to occur and risk collusion. If owners are clearly colluding, then kick them out of the league via a league vote. Owners will use their vote with more integrity when you're talking about kicking someone out.

2. You can do a flex if you want, but if you don't want people to be able to start 3 good RBs, then I would recommend just making it a 2RB, 3WR league. Or maybe 4WR and combine the WR/TEs. Your odd RB from the same team scenario is just going to benefit one or two owners, putting everyone else at a disadvantage, which is what you're trying to avoid. Or you can do what my league does, and make QB an option in the flex. This allows you to start 2 QBs, which generally is better than 3RBs, but if you have neither at least you can still revert to a WR or even TE. Not the best option, but at least you have some hope if you're suffering through injuries and/or bye weeks. My league absolutely loves it...it's almost like a 2QB league, but you still have options and hope even if you have bad luck at QB.

3. It is up to you how you want the scoring to be. PPR leagues really don't increase the value of WRs, because ALL the wide receivers catch balls. Sure, it might increase a bit of the 90+ catch WRs, but since everyone is getting a point boost, it doesn't increase the WR value as a whole at all. In fact, in has a much greater impact on RBs who catch balls. Guys like Rudi Johnson are severely punished in such leagues. Also, it has never really made sense to me because you don't give QBs points for completions or RBs points for carries. Why give a WR points for a catch of no gain? The point is that scoring changes only benefit or hurt certain types of players (ie Westy vs Rudi)...they don't change the value of the position as a whole very much. RBs are hard to get no matter what scoring system you use, so they will be more valuable than QBs and WRs. Therefore, if you want to balance the value of the positions themselves, you have to do it by adjusting roster spots as I mentioned above.

But to recap the most important thing, you hated that league because it wasn't run the way you like it. No one is going to like your league if it isn't run the way THEY like it. Remember that and you'll do alright.

Good luck! ;-D
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Postby dream_017 » Thu May 31, 2007 8:09 am

Welcome to the cafe.

I think dgan hit everything right. The best way to make it fun is the owners. Put a lot of those rules up to the owners to vote and the majority wins.

Trades - I have always agreed with the 24-48 timeframe before a trade is approved(by league vote)

Flex - personally I am not a big fan of flex positions. Like dgan mentioned if you don't want the option of 3 RBs then make the flex WR/TE

Scoring - I would stick to more of a standard scoring. See the other thread on what is your league scoring.
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Postby Boise State Broncos » Thu May 31, 2007 10:38 am

Thanks for the feed back guys. I totally get what your saying about the Tyrant thing and thats the one thing I DON'T want to be, however, the league I was in last year was terrible because the commish DID NOT have the rules on certain things written down and it made for a lot of fighting and bickering and it resulted in things not getting done or major rules being changed in the middle of the season. THIS is the exact thing I want to avoid. The whole democracy thing was great.... for certain things. I believe if you are the commish its your responsibility to make sure things run as smooth as possible so you don't have guys getting pissed and leaving in the middle of a season over something you could have easily avoided. I appreciate your guys input! let me give you some examples so you might better understand what I am trying to avoid.

1. last season commish boner head wanted IDPs added as well. this was fine. no one had done IDP before so we thought it would be fun. except he made one fatal error. scoring. SOLO tackles were 1 point AS WELL as assisted tackles. so guys like Zack Thomas became gods! I mean we had trades like Demarco Ryans for Rudi Johnson I shit you not, and it was justified because Ryans was averaging 18 points or so a week just on tackles alone! I brought this to everyone attention after week one and requested a vote to get tackle points reduced. well after week 2 we had a vote, and guys who didn't have tackling machines on their team voted for a change and guys who had Zack Thomas like tackling machines Voted against it. The commish who has very little balls called the votes even (they were not) and left it the way it was. Three weeks later he is tired of the IDPs outscoring his precious tom brady and changes the rules in the middle of the night. the next morning, guys who had traded their star QBs for Zack Thomas quit the league. there is a classic example of voting not working. guys are only going to vote in a way that will benefit them. I don't want to be a tyrant/dictator, but I will not have a league where guys are quitting in the middle of a season because I changed the rules without anyones say. my solution to this is to get things as close to perfect before the league starts and have it all in writing before I even send out invites. Does this make me a bad commish?

2. trades.... to me this is the hardest part of fantasy. I got a lot of friends that LOVE trades! these guys should have been stock traders or something, they can't get enough of it. some of them just like the thrill of it so much they don't care if they win they just want to trade! I want trading to be as fair and equal as possible. here is something I really want to avoid! so about half way through the season last year, I had Chad Johnson, and if you recall Mr. Ocho Cinco didn't get off to a great start last year. Well another owner in my league had Torry Holt who was doing pretty well early on. so we start talking about doing a trade because he had been bugging me about Ocho Cinco all year because he went to college with him and he is a Bungles fan and it was a dynasty so he wanted CJ for 10 years or whatever. So we agree to do the trade. except in this circus of a league we had a TRADE COMMITTEE! trade committee was four people and the commish was tie breaker. well the main problem here was that myself and the owner of torry holt were on the damn committee. so our votes were nulified. so the votes were split 1-1 and the commish VOTED NO because the trade was unfair. the main problem here is this: WHAT IS A FAIR TRADE? there is no rule for what is a fair trade. in my eyes chad johnson and torry holt are equal. they have both finished in the top 5 of overall WR scoring over the last three years! they are the number one WR on pass happy teams. to me, thats fair! To some one elses point of view, chad Johnson was slumping and it didn't look bright for him and torry holt was on fire. OCHO CINCO had 68 overall season points to date and torry holt had 112. well in that light it doesn't seem fair. so you have all these people with the your trade in their hands and they are all looking at it in different ways. so the trade didn't happen. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPEND LAST YEAR? at the end of last year Chad Johnson caught on fire and put up back to back multiple TD games with over 150 yards in each game. he went ape. torry holt went into the tanks. where I come out on this is: A TRADE IS A TRADE, people have hunches and they should be allowed to do a trade based on a gut feeling. but how do I stop trading anarchey?

I know this is a freaking novel here but another problem is that there always is going to be a few guys who just don't know football or fantasy football as well as some. these guys end up trading like idiots. last year this first timer traded willie parker for jeremy shockey. ya, guess who was doing that trade? the commish! he ended up getting fast willie and he gave up a TE for him. the committee was split on voting. of course the commish is not going to vote himself out of getting a top 5 running back for a flippin TE. the rook in the league didn't even know who willie parker was. now one team in the league had willie parker and LT. so how would I combat this in my new league? I do like the idea of you have until saturday morning to get your trades done and they must be posted for 24 hours for people to vote on it. that does sound like a good way to control collusion and rookie goofs without having the headache of a set committee.

again, thanks for all the input and I hope to get more good advice. this is why I came to this forum. sorry I wrote a novel here, but its my day off and I thought I would set up my league cuz guys have been bugging me about it.
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Postby G3_175SE » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:07 pm

Welcome to the commissioner ranks. It can be fun but it can also turn your hair prematurely gray or all fall out.

I have been a commissioner of my own leagues for about 5 years. Like you I was unhappy with the league I was in and decided I wanted to develop a league in which I would enjoy playing. Now have 3. In my opinion most commissioners started the same way we did. They developed their leagues in their own image, one in which they would enjoy playing.

While it is important to make changes to the league to keep the owners happy, you also have to keep true to your vision for the league. Don't be a tyrant but don't be a wimp. Be firm! If someone wants something you don't then don't make the change. Remember, you are an owner too and if you aren't happy the league won't be a good one.

I recently had some owners from my large (48 team) league express their desire to make some changes that would make the league more of a 365/24/7 type league. While I really like fantasy football I take a few months off to do other things. And I know many others in the league are the same. We want to play but not 365 days a year.

This isn’t to say that you shouldn’t listen to your owners, you should always take into account their ideas but ultimately you will make the decision that the most sense to you.
Do what you need to keep everyone happy but remain true to your vision for the league. You will enjoy it much more.

1. Trades – One thing I will never allow is the league to vote on trades. Talk about collusion. Giving veto power to the league owners is a mistake. Voting against trades can become a nightmare if you aren’t part of the ruling majority in the league. I have seen 100% of the votes for some owners rejected because the “group” doesn’t like him or for some other stupid reason. If the trade is a good trade for both teams why shouldn’t it go through. As commissioner you should be the one to determine the validity of a trade. This is what you signed on for. If you are a good and honest person you will allow trades to take place unless there is obvious collusion. Our website is set up to send all trades to me for approval. In all these years I have never had to veto any trade and I hope I never do. Even giving me veto power is dangerous but I believe I am a fair person and try my best to do what is best for the league, not me.

You also have the vast resources of this board to help determine if a trade is ok. Just ask for help.

2. Roster spots/flex – for the exact reason you mentioned we don’t allow flex. I have played in leagues with flex and found I didn’t like it. Some people bitch that they have a 3rd RB that would score better than a WR/TE or maybe they have a WR that would score better than a TE. This is true but that should be taken into account in your draft and trading strategy. I believe that allowing a flex position aids those owners with weak drafting skills or evaluating and acquiring free agents. IMO

3. Points – if you have played for a while then you know what you like. Develop you points as you see fit. Personally I like the RB to score the most with the WR and QB not far behind. I would also suggest you review as many sites as you can to see what others have don’t, then develop the system you like best. Also get some input from your owners.

4. Rules – write everything down and post so everyone knows what is expected. You can never satisfy everyone and some will interpret the rules as they see fit. As the commissioner who developed the rules you know best what the rules were intended to mean so you know best their interpretation. Stand firm and do what is best for the league. Change/adapt the rules as needed but only in the off-season. No rule should be changed during the season.

I hope this has been helpful. Good luck.

Here are my websites:

League bylaws:

http://www.geocities.com/bwwoff/ssconstitution.html


Here is the league manager website. You can view our scoring rules and site as a guest.

http://www.rtsports.com
ID: bwwoff
Password: football
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Postby G3_175SE » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:13 pm

Boise State Broncos wrote:I do like the idea of you have until saturday morning to get your trades done and they must be posted for 24 hours for people to vote on it. that does sound like a good way to control collusion and rookie goofs without having the headache of a set committee.



But what gives you the right to dictate what a rookie can or can’t do. He is the owner and should be able to do what he wants. Was the trade stupid? Yes. Did it give the other team an advantage? Yes. But we learn from our mistakes and maybe someone should be helping the rookie, telling them to ask for help first. If all trades went to you for approval you could ask the rookie does he really want to do that.
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Postby Boise State Broncos » Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:17 pm

thanks a lot for the advice G3_175SE. I have changed my trade policy about four times and right before I read your post I had changed it back to my original form of just trades going straight to me. last year was people voting and it went smooth for a while. actually it was really smooth until a couple weeks before playoff time and guys who were out of the playoff hunt were making ugly trades with guys who were still fighting for it. I guess the one thing I do not like about trades going directly through me is that I will be made to be the evil one if I say no to a trade. anyways, thanks for the advice and I am so happy that I found this site. OH! and one more thing. I thought, wouldn't it be sweet if a trade got hairy that it would have to come through here to get passed. No one in here would have a hidden agenda on what they thought was fair. just a thought. thanks!
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