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Of course Peyton then Vick right?

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Of course Peyton then Vick right?

Postby a4ce » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:52 pm

In my league QB gets 6pts/all tds, 1pt/20yards passing, 2pts/10 yards receiving and 2pts/10 yards RUSHING. Ints and fumbles are -1pt.

With this scoring system, I have ranked as follows:
1. Peyton
2. Vick
3. Carson
4. Young
5. Bulger

What do you guys think? With the scoring system mentioned, who is in your top 5?
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Re: Of course Peyton then Vick right?

Postby Free Bagel » Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:11 pm

a4ce wrote:With the scoring system mentioned, who is in your top 5?


Err...certainly not Vick.

Those are pretty standard scoring rules. Actually, they're weighted more towards passing QBs than standard scoring (which is generally 25yds passing per point and 4 point pass TDs) and you will still not find Vick in many top 5's.

Way too inconsistent week to week, and unlikely to repeat those rushing totals from last year.
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Re: Of course Peyton then Vick right?

Postby WickedSmaat » Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:14 pm

Free Bagel wrote:
a4ce wrote:With the scoring system mentioned, who is in your top 5?


Err...certainly not Vick.

Those are pretty standard scoring rules. Actually, they're weighted more towards passing QBs than standard scoring (which is generally 25yds passing per point and 4 point pass TDs) and you will still not find Vick in many top 5's.

Way too inconsistent week to week, and unlikely to repeat those rushing totals from last year.


Are you sure? I mean 2 pts per 10 yards is damn significant, weighs against QBs in this league but helping those that run. I could see Vick ending up in that spot, but who's to say he'll even play this year. It's tough to say but getting a guaranteed 20 pts if 100 is dropped is just insane, but that's cause I'm a simple guy and like the simple default scoring :-b
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Re: Of course Peyton then Vick right?

Postby Free Bagel » Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:24 pm

Oh woah, didn't see that it was two points per 10 yards. Probably better to just list that as 1pt/5yds for reading's sake, easy to overlook otherwise.
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Re: Of course Peyton then Vick right?

Postby Munboy » Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:25 am

suuure...manning and then vick....if you are looking to lose your league. ;-D

I've been saying over and over, you can't look at Vick's stats as a whole. You have to look game by game.

1) never threw for more than 300 yards (3 games with less than 100 yards passing)
2) 6 games he didnt throw any TDs
3) 3 times he threw more INTs than TDs
4) only 5 games of multiple TDs
5) 11 of his 20 total TDs thrown happened in 3 games (are you sure which games this will happen???)
6) wracked up a good amount of rushing yards, but only 2 TDs
7) had a 3 game stretch where he threw 2 INTs and 0 TDs (and fumbled 5 times)
8) 4 games his completions didn't reach double digits
9) NO games his completed more than 20 passes
10) Less than half of his games went without and INT (7)
11) Of those 7 games, he fumbled in 3 of those games

I hate when ppl use the phrase "take out this game and he's..." .....BUT, take out the Pittsburgh and Cincy game, and Vick's stats would be completely horrible. Who knew he'd throw 7 TDs v 2 INTs in a two game stretch, especially against a D like Pittsburgh? If you say you, you're lying! Vick is hit or miss...mostly miss... so he has never, and never will be on one of my teams! ;-D

To be fair, i'll compare Vick to a QB I'm high on this year, but I haven't heard much buzz around yet. Phillip Rivers. The exact same stats...

1) had 2 300 yard games (only 1 game under 100 yrds)
2) 3 games he didnt throw any TDs
3) 1 times he threw more INTs than TDs
4) 8 games of multiple TDs
5) only threw for more than 2 TDs once (3) which means his TDs are spread out over the season (22TDs v vick's 20)
6) not a runner, so vick's 2 TDs beat him out
7) had only 2 games he threw more than one INT
8) 2 games his completions didn't reach double digits
9) 5 games he completed more than 20 passes
10) 9 games without an INT
11) fumbled 1 more time than Vick

If I can't get one of the big scorer QBs, I prefer to look for one who spreads his stats out over the season to help me win multiple games instead of one that will win me 2 games single-handedly.
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Re: Of course Peyton then Vick right?

Postby aaawall91 » Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:53 am

Munboy wrote:suuure...manning and then vick....if you are looking to lose your league. ;-D

I've been saying over and over, you can't look at Vick's stats as a whole. You have to look game by game.

1) never threw for more than 300 yards (3 games with less than 100 yards passing)
2) 6 games he didnt throw any TDs
3) 3 times he threw more INTs than TDs
4) only 5 games of multiple TDs
5) 11 of his 20 total TDs thrown happened in 3 games (are you sure which games this will happen???)
6) wracked up a good amount of rushing yards, but only 2 TDs
7) had a 3 game stretch where he threw 2 INTs and 0 TDs (and fumbled 5 times)
8) 4 games his completions didn't reach double digits
9) NO games his completed more than 20 passes
10) Less than half of his games went without and INT (7)
11) Of those 7 games, he fumbled in 3 of those games

I hate when ppl use the phrase "take out this game and he's..." .....BUT, take out the Pittsburgh and Cincy game, and Vick's stats would be completely horrible. Who knew he'd throw 7 TDs v 2 INTs in a two game stretch, especially against a D like Pittsburgh? If you say you, you're lying! Vick is hit or miss...mostly miss... so he has never, and never will be on one of my teams! ;-D

To be fair, i'll compare Vick to a QB I'm high on this year, but I haven't heard much buzz around yet. Phillip Rivers. The exact same stats...

1) had 2 300 yard games (only 1 game under 100 yrds)
2) 3 games he didnt throw any TDs
3) 1 times he threw more INTs than TDs
4) 8 games of multiple TDs
5) only threw for more than 2 TDs once (3) which means his TDs are spread out over the season (22TDs v vick's 20)
6) not a runner, so vick's 2 TDs beat him out
7) had only 2 games he threw more than one INT
8) 2 games his completions didn't reach double digits
9) 5 games he completed more than 20 passes
10) 9 games without an INT
11) fumbled 1 more time than Vick

If I can't get one of the big scorer QBs, I prefer to look for one who spreads his stats out over the season to help me win multiple games instead of one that will win me 2 games single-handedly.
;-D


Very solid advice right there ;-D

I say take what ever normal settings rankings you have and boost up Vick 1 or 2 spots in them

I would have it something like:

Peyton Manning
Brady
Palmer
Drew Brees
Marc Bulger
Leinhart
Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Cutler
Vick

Thats a rough estimate. To be fair I'm way down on guys like Romo, Hasselback, and Delhomme.
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Re: Of course Peyton then Vick right?

Postby treat24 » Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:18 am

aaawall91 wrote:
Munboy wrote:suuure...manning and then vick....if you are looking to lose your league. ;-D

I've been saying over and over, you can't look at Vick's stats as a whole. You have to look game by game.

1) never threw for more than 300 yards (3 games with less than 100 yards passing)
2) 6 games he didnt throw any TDs
3) 3 times he threw more INTs than TDs
4) only 5 games of multiple TDs
5) 11 of his 20 total TDs thrown happened in 3 games (are you sure which games this will happen???)
6) wracked up a good amount of rushing yards, but only 2 TDs
7) had a 3 game stretch where he threw 2 INTs and 0 TDs (and fumbled 5 times)
8) 4 games his completions didn't reach double digits
9) NO games his completed more than 20 passes
10) Less than half of his games went without and INT (7)
11) Of those 7 games, he fumbled in 3 of those games

I hate when ppl use the phrase "take out this game and he's..." .....BUT, take out the Pittsburgh and Cincy game, and Vick's stats would be completely horrible. Who knew he'd throw 7 TDs v 2 INTs in a two game stretch, especially against a D like Pittsburgh? If you say you, you're lying! Vick is hit or miss...mostly miss... so he has never, and never will be on one of my teams! ;-D

To be fair, i'll compare Vick to a QB I'm high on this year, but I haven't heard much buzz around yet. Phillip Rivers. The exact same stats...

1) had 2 300 yard games (only 1 game under 100 yrds)
2) 3 games he didnt throw any TDs
3) 1 times he threw more INTs than TDs
4) 8 games of multiple TDs
5) only threw for more than 2 TDs once (3) which means his TDs are spread out over the season (22TDs v vick's 20)
6) not a runner, so vick's 2 TDs beat him out
7) had only 2 games he threw more than one INT
8) 2 games his completions didn't reach double digits
9) 5 games he completed more than 20 passes
10) 9 games without an INT
11) fumbled 1 more time than Vick

If I can't get one of the big scorer QBs, I prefer to look for one who spreads his stats out over the season to help me win multiple games instead of one that will win me 2 games single-handedly.
;-D


Very solid advice right there ;-D

I say take what ever normal settings rankings you have and boost up Vick 1 or 2 spots in them

I would have it something like:

Peyton Manning
Brady
Palmer
Drew Brees
Marc Bulger
Leinhart
Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Cutler
Vick

Thats a rough estimate. To be fair I'm way down on guys like Romo, Hasselback, and Delhomme.



AHEM...

I'm not a big Vick fan for fantasy football, but I can't let this slide...

a couple things on your stats.. Vick had 6 multi-td games. You say rivers had 9 games without an INT but he managed to turn the ball over (fumble/int) in 11 of 16 games... nice that you failed to mention that... being Vick turned the ball over in 11/16 games also... exactly the same as each other... I will give you that Vick had 5 more turnovers (Vick had one 5 turnover game that scewed his stats) Also, your completion stats do not matter in this scoring system. You also talk about Vick failing to throw 100 yards 3 times... One was week 17. The other two... he ran for 120+ (24 pts) and 160+ (32 pts) ... hard to throw when your picking up first downs on the ground so easily... Also you say he had a 3 game stretch where he threw 0 tds and 2 picks... he did have a rushing td and scored 61 fantasy points in this guys league. 20 ppg... rivers only avg'ed 17 ppg last year... so during vick's worst strech as you pointed out... he was still better than rivers... good to know...

While Your assessment is mostly correct MunBoy, except a few things listed below, your application IS HORRIBLE... Look at how the 3 scored last year using this guy's scoring system... yes, let's look at it week by week as you say:

Vick - Rivers - Manning

27 10 18
39 19 38
15 BYE 22
26 11 22
BYE 27 19
20 28 BYE
41 23 41
41 16 35
27 9 27
26 34 17
22 21 20
35 5 14
28 11 21
6 25 20
44 2 40
9 20 28
12 22 34

418 283 416

First off, I would rather have a top passing QB who I know doesn't have off-field problems, I'm not condoning the Pick of Vick after Manning... I would take other proven top guys first... Not sold on picking Vick #2 in any league... However, if you are gonna compare last year's stats... Try using this guys scoring system, otherwise you are not helping him...

Saying Vick dominated Rivers would be an understatement... as far as consistency... Rivers was better just 6 of the 17 weeks (one Vick had a bye, another was week 17 when nobody in there right mind plays fantasy football championships.) ... Manning Beat Vick 5 of 17 weeks (1 beiung Vick's Bye, another being week 17). Take out Manning's BYe and.... Vick BEAT OR TIED MANNING 11/14 non-bye fantasy weeks!!! IN THIS SCORING SYSTEM! Take out any 2 games YOU WANT Munboy... it won't add up to the 135 point difference in the two players... Take out Rivers Best two and he looks like a tier 5 QB... HE only scored over 25 fantasy points 3 times in THIS SCORING SYSTEM... Vick scored over 25 TEN TIMES... Vick was WAY more consistently a high scorer in this system... He scored about 10 PPG more (27-17) than rivers taking out the byes and week 17... heck, leave'um in and it's still about 10

So during regular fantasy weeks... Vick was BETTER than Rivers (like Manning but to a much larger degree) point wise 11/14 non-bye fantasy weeks (taking out the two guys byes and week 17)... and of those weeks... many of them he destroyed what Rivers scored. In this guys scoring system I went through Brees, Palmer, as many people as I could... Vick was the #1 fantasy QB. Though you can't take him over Manning and his off-field issues have him dropping further... I think you have to look at Vick and Vince as THE guys to get in this league. just don't over reach given Vick's troubles and young's lack of WRs...

Even if you keep week 17 in... Vick was #1... even if you add the bye weeks, vick was #1... no matter how you slice it... Vick was the best fantasy QB in this scoring system last year...

As for projecting this year... you gotta drop him on your draft chart for off-field stuff. Other than that, a few improvements, a few losses... he should be roughly the same... but I can't imagine he will be held to 2 rushing tds again...

and Bagel if it was 1 pt per 5 yards Vick would had about 10 more fantasy points than 2/10... so it does make an ever so slight difference...
Last edited by treat24 on Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Of course Peyton then Vick right?

Postby Tsizzle » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:53 am

8-o
wow this is intense
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Re: Of course Peyton then Vick right?

Postby WickedSmaat » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:09 am

Hey treat, were those numbers you posted with 2/10 yds?
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Re: Of course Peyton then Vick right?

Postby treat24 » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:37 am

WickedSmaat wrote:Hey treat, were those numbers you posted with 2/10 yds?


yep, it was using the scoring that a4ce said his league uses... i edited my post to say that now, thanks ;-D
2 pts per 10 yards rushing... not 1 pt per 5

and I apologize if I sounded harsh, it's just this guys scoring warrants the question... If Vick plays the whole season there are only a handful of guys that qualify to wash vick's jock in this league. I'm not a fan of drafting him... as i said I'd rather have one of those top 5 or 6... he's got a ton of risk for this season. However this scoring system is ridiculous for him... especially if he runs in a few more tds than 2...
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