That second group of WRs

[skibrett15]

maybe we're in need of a new thread to hash out a few guys??? So long as we keep it civil, there's a group of WRs this year that seem to have everyone disagreeing.

I think these guys should be left out of the discussion because they're either clearly above the group in mention or have been beaten to death already (Chad, Boldin, Fitz, Moss):
Holt, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson (mostly for free bagel's sake), Harrison, TO, Fitzgerald, Boldin, Wayne, Randy Moss.

Here's the group I have no idea on:

Santana Moss (I got a really good feeling on this guy with Jason Campbell), Marques Colston, Javon Walker, Andre Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Roy Williams, Lee Evans, Donald Driver, plaxico Burress, laveranues Coles, Darrell Jackson. I don't think I forgot anyone, but maybe I did.

These are guys that will probably go in the 3rd and 4th rounds of a draft (12 team) and could be seen in the 5th and 6th in some cases (santana moss) or in smaller leagues.

Initial Thoughts:
Donald Driver: 1200 and at least 5 TDs for the past 3 years in a row makes this guy near the top.
Marques Colston: the best fantasy WR bar none prior to the injury. He's probably no. 2 on this list for me.
Plaxico Burress: I don't want to own any part of the giants offense in 07. Their O-line is a mess and there's no tiki to draw all the attention away from Eli. 10 TDs, but not even 1000 yards last season. And only 63 catches.
Roy Williams: Had a huge year. Does Calvin Johnson hurt his numbers? I don't think so. This guy might be a level above the rest for most of you, but I think he belongs in this group. He's still my no. 1 guy of these
Javon Walker: I think Cutler will go to him early and often next year. He's now fully recovered (hypothetically) from his ACL tear.
Lee Evans: often overlooked, but he keeps producing even as the only option. He is very consistent in the playoffs.
T.J. Housh: It was a good year, but I could see a return to true number 2 status on the team next year (as opposed to the 1a status of last year). Will he get enough TDs to warrant his draft position?
Andre Johnson: Never has the TDs for an elite season. PPR he's great. Definitely on the lower end of this list.
Santana Moss: A year removed from 1500 yards and 9 TDs. Injured last season, but it was that darn hammy again. He has alternated big years with disappointments. Is he due for a big one again? I think Campbell will look to him and Cooley often.

Preliminary rankings of these guys:
Roy Williams
Marques Colston
Donald Driver
Lee Evans
Javon Walker
Santana Moss
T.J. Houshmandzadeh
Andre Johnson
Plaxico Burress

[theimitator]

I'd like to toss DJax (with a spotty QB?) and Deion Branch (finally the passing game focus?) into the discussion.

Thoughts?

[venus]

My rankings for these wr's are;
Williams
Walker
Housh
Colston
Evans
Driver
Andre Johnson
Plaxico
Santana Moss

[BlueBandit24]

I'd like to toss DJax (with a spotty QB?) and Deion Branch (finally the passing game focus?) into the discussion.

Thoughts?

I'd throw D-Jax in there. When healthy he has been extremely productive and I think he at least warrants a spot in the discussion.

Branch I would leave out. He's never gone over 1,000 yards or 5 TD's. I think he'll be sharing plenty of looks with Hackett, Burleson, Engram so I can't call him the focus of the passing game until I see it.

I also think Boldin should be tossed into this grouping. He's golden as far as yardage goes but his TD totals leave a lot to be desired. 1, 7, and 4 the past 3 years, although last season was his first 16 game slate of the 3. Until he finds the endzone more I would group him in with these guys.

Of the above mentioned, I would rank them:

1) Roy Williams-Arguably the most physically gifted of the group, and with Martz running the offense he should have plenty of opportunities to match or surpass last years numbers. I'd think CJ on the other side would only benefit him, especially in the red zone.

2) Javon Walker-Fully healthy after being 2 years removed from torn knee. An elite vertical threat with a strong-armed QB who should mature more in his 2nd year. Cutler didn't look Walker's way often at the end of last year, but with training camp and the pre-season to get acclimated to one another they should build more of a rapport heading into this season.

3) T.J Houshmandzadeh-Continues to improve each year and is extremely consistent from week to week. Doesn't have the upside of the guys above but may be the safest choice.

4) Donald Driver-Underrated guy who is a virtual lock for 1,100 yards and 6 +TD's. As long as Favre is around Driver is one of the better 2nd receivers around and a #1 in deeper leagues.

5) Marques Colston-#1 on the depth chart but probably the 2nd option in the passing game behind Bush. I'll have to see another year of production before I move him up, but I think he'll post solid numbers again this year.

6) Anquan Boldin-The afforementioned TD totals slide him down the list but he rarely posts bad games and the improvement of Leinart can only be beneficial. If he does indeed take the Hines Ward role in Whisenhunt's offense than he may prove to be one of the more valuable receivers on this list.

7) Lee Evans-Losman showed a lot of improvement last year and Evans posted his best numbers yet. Losman should continue to get better, but until Evans posts a full seasons worth of good numbers rather than huge 2nd halfs, I'll keep him towards the middle of this list. Huge upside though.

8) Santana Moss-Campbell throws a good deep ball, if Moss is healthy they could develop a nice connection. Could be a good value pick this year.

9) Andre Johnson-Still no threat opposite him and an offensive line that probably won't give him time to get deep. Great in PPR, but his yardage and TD ceiling are limited by the offense.

10) Darrell Jackson-Injuries and an unproven QB lower his value, but he should get a lot of looks and becomes SF's best receiver by far.

11) Plaxico Burress-I don't like New York's offensive situation either, and his big games are offset by his duds. I'm not a Plax fan.

A lot of these guys are so close that it's hard to seperate them.

[Kilroy]

I'd throw Laveranues Coles into that group as well. Cotchery limits his upside somewhat, but I think Coles will put up similar numbers to what he did last year, and 80+/1000+/5+ is nothing to sneeze at from your WR2.

[011472]

Another vote for Williams as #1.
1. Williams
2. Boldin- Could blow up this year.
3. Walker- Maybe the biggest upside. Could be a huge year if he and Cutler can connect.
4. Driver- Underrated, consistent threat with Favre.
5. Housh
6. Colston- talented but will share looks with Bush and company.
7. Evans
8. Moss- More upside than AJ
9. AJ- How did they not find another receiver this year?
10. DJax- SF
11. Coles
12. Burress

[Pitch12]

I'd rather have Roy Williams than Randy Moss. I bet if you put Randy in that second tier group, he would not be the top ranked guy.

[skibrett15]

I'd rather leave Boldin out since he and fitz are always a hot topic round here.

Seems everyone is on the Housh train.

There's a consensus as far as Plax and D-Jack and Andre Johnson being near the bottom. Coles too I guess.

Roy Williams is the consensus top choice.

Apparently everyone loves Walker this year, but still no one agrees on Colston. Some people are afraid of a Mike clayton experience and some are loving the potential of a top 5 receiver in later rounds. Those aren't the only reasons as there's a whole friggin thread on Colston, but those ideas are in my mind.

I really think Driver has to be in the top 3. He has gone over 1200 yards the last 3 seasons and has had 2 8+ TD years. I just can't see housh eclipsing those totals next year.

As far as Randy Moss goes... some people think he's top 5, some people would put him here. I think he's right around the top of this list. It's just too tough to call since it's a whole new situation with a ton of things that have changed.

[moochman]

Alrighty, here are my second tier WR thoughts:
1) Roy Williams. I love his talent, size and speed. Combine that with another season of Martz highjinx and the addition of more talented Calvin Johnson to keep secondaries honest and Roy could have a break out season.
2)Housh. TJ will be the go to guy when CJ isn't open and a legitimate target in the endzone now that Henry will miss time. Like his chances of being a great value on draft day.
3) Walker. Love the way they use him in Denver. Cutler is going to be crucial in helping Walker emerge as an upper echelon WR.
4) Andre Johnson. Again QB will be the deal maker with this talented WR. Too friggin big and swift to be covered, great hands equals huge season....ah, if he has improved QB and O-line play.
5) I like Burres here. People seem to look at the O-line a Tiki as reasons the VaGiants will struggle this year. I think that it could also mean they pass the ball more, and Plaxico is a beast often enough to score double digit TDs and lots of yards.
6) D Jax. Overlooked as he goes to a team that is still under the radar. I feel D Jax will be the redzone target for the 9ers and with Smith's growth and Gores dominence Ds won't be able to stop D Jax. Injuries will be the only thing that can hold him down. High upside places him 6th.
7) Coles. The upgrade in O-line and RB will help Coles find more open spaces and the man gets open. I think he is a great value and could have a top 15-20 season.
8) Chris Chambers. If Green can stay healthy, Chambers is primed for a great season. Super value if the O can get their act together.
9) Colston. Not having Horn is going to hurt as teams shape their secondary to cover Marques. The emergence of Henderson and addition of rookie whats-his-face will feed into Brees's penchant for spreading the ball around enough to hold Colston down.
10) Santana Moss. Super sleeper who is a draft day bargain if the Skins QB can throw enough times to make it worthwhile. Campbell(?) will throw downfield at least, and that has been the biggest drawback for Moss. Does no good to be a blazer when your QB can't throw a spiral.
11) Lee Evans. Size, speed, hands. Everything but the girl. That is the QB. If Losman can turn into Launchman Evans could leap frog up to the upper third of this list. Not a believer in an erratic QB, rookie RB, weak O-line, and archaic coach being the recipe for a stud WR numbers.
12)Driver. He has to deal with an increasingly erratic QB, a healthy and better route running Greg Jennings, and a deteriorating running game that will keep the O from running smoothly enough to provide the opportunities for Driver to deliver.

Most of these guys can move within this list during the exhibition season as teams start to show their identities.

[FF Newbie]

I don't 100% agree with your first tier as I have some of your first tier guys in my 2nd tier. My rankings look roughly like this (still fine tuning at this point):

Smith
TO
Harrison
Holt
CJ

Wayne
Roy
Colston
Walker
Fitz
Boldin
Housh
Driver
AJ
Evans
R. Moss

Burress
Coles
S. Moss
Jackson
I also have several others in this tier which you didn't mention: Ward, Reggie Brown, Edwards and Branch to name a few.

I have Fitz and Boldin ranked a little lower than most because they have to share catches and still have a 2nd-year QB throwing to them and Edge will likely score quite a few more touchdowns this year. I don't know if there is enough offense in Arizona to make Edge a 2nd-rounder and Fitz and Boldin early/mid 3rd-rounders. Harrison/Wayne and CJ/Housh are top WR pairs, but Leinart isn't at Manning's and Palmer's level yet, so I would drop Fitz and Boldin down a few spots from where most people have them. I'm also a tad higher on Colston than most and a little lower on AJ and Randy Moss.