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P. Manning value uprising

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Re: P. Manning value uprising

Postby PapaPark » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:20 am

Manning's value is at, and has been at, its peak. People are still picking him in the first round or if not then most definitely the first overall QB selected. How could there possibly be an "uprise"?
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Re: P. Manning value uprising

Postby TheRawDAWG » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:46 am

steelerfan513 wrote:The only player the Colts lost was Cato June, and although that will probably hurt a little, linebackers are more replaceable than other defensive positions. I wouldn't expect much of a change in Manning's value.



Didn't they lose a starting CB as well....the name of which has slipped my mind. David?
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Re: P. Manning value uprising

Postby PapaPark » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:15 am

TheRawDAWG wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:The only player the Colts lost was Cato June, and although that will probably hurt a little, linebackers are more replaceable than other defensive positions. I wouldn't expect much of a change in Manning's value.



Didn't they lose a starting CB as well....the name of which has slipped my mind. David?


Yep Jason David who went to the Saints
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Re: P. Manning value uprising

Postby PMoneyTKE » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:47 am

PapaPark wrote:
TheRawDAWG wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:The only player the Colts lost was Cato June, and although that will probably hurt a little, linebackers are more replaceable than other defensive positions. I wouldn't expect much of a change in Manning's value.



Didn't they lose a starting CB as well....the name of which has slipped my mind. David?


Yep Jason David who went to the Saints


and Nick Harper and Mike Doss :-o
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Re: P. Manning value uprising

Postby mattb47 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:25 pm

PMoneyTKE wrote:
PapaPark wrote:
TheRawDAWG wrote:Didn't they lose a starting CB as well....the name of which has slipped my mind. David?


Yep Jason David who went to the Saints


and Nick Harper and Mike Doss :-o


Who all matter very little in the large scheme of things.
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Re: P. Manning value uprising

Postby bagobonez » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:33 pm

I think you can take Manning's value down a peg or two with the abrupt retirement of Pro Bowl LT Tarik Glenn.
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Re: P. Manning value uprising

Postby steelerfan513 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:06 pm

Now with Tarik Glenn's apparent retirement, I would actually downgrade him a little bit. Losing your left tackle a month and a half before the season is awful, and having a rookie replace him is even worse.
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Re: P. Manning value uprising

Postby TheRawDAWG » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:21 pm

Yep Jason David who went to the Saints[/quote]

and Nick Harper and Mike Doss :-o[/quote]

Who all matter very little in the large scheme of things.[/quote]

I wouldn't say losing 3/4 of the back end of your D matters little. Even if the scheme they run could have monkeys back there like you suggest. I would rather have the monkeys that know it and have played it for a while. And Bob Sanders isn't the healthiest guy in the world either.
So they weren't the best...and may have ended the worst. SO WHAT!
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Re: P. Manning value uprising

Postby Free Bagel » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:34 pm

aaawall91 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see his numbers go up from last year.

- The Colts Run Defense HAS to be better than last year, which will result in more passing on it by other teams. Which in theory should result in more time of possession for the Colts.

-His receivers are only getting better
Harrison is getting up there, but the older receivers get the better at catching they become, even if he loses a half a step he will more than make up for it with sure hands (which would be a sinful lie to say he didn't have before). Wayne, another year more experience, may even take a closer look at his technique and little things from what I imagine him helping mentor Gonzalez and he will notice things about him self through them. Dallas Clark, same story, another year should be that much better (Top receiver in terms of yards in the playoffs last year...which means its only comparable to Chicago wide receivers which is... irrelevant and the other Colts WRs which says something) AS well as the other wide receivers [Flethcer, Utecht]. Gonzalez, I see him being an improvement over who ever was at the #3 WR spot at any given time last year (Stokley, Moorehead, etc).

-Last year Addai had 50 (caught 40) Targets to Rhodes 46 (caught 36). Addai had more Rushing attempts 226 to 187.
Now this can say a few things but. Addai was a better receiver (percentage of balls target/caught) and was thrown to more often. With him in the backfield much more this year (even with spells by Dorsey), I can't imagine them putting too much of a bigger rushing load on him right away, more so in general I doubt it will be on the ground more so this year than last with the veteran rusher having left, who had a decent sized role in the offense. so I expect those non-rushing plays to turn into passing plays, some of which will be dump-offs, which will be points for Peyton. And it appears they have trust in Addai as a receiver, and it sounds like hes pretty smart, which is good for their system.

- Peyton scoring 4 TDs wont be a repeat, hes too valuable to be exposed like that as often as he was.

...So in theory more possession time for the Colts offense, less rushing than last year, less rushing (and TDs for that matter) for Peyton...must result in more passing, No?


The thing here is that this is all unsubstantiated theory that "sounds good", but hasn't really played itself out that way in practice.

A guy getting old gets better at catching which offsets losing a step? C'mon. By this logic WRs could play forever. Even greats like Jerry Rice and Tim Brown were nowhere near the same once they hit their mid 30's. Not to say that Harrison is going to drop off this year by any means, but let's not pretend that if he does "lose a step" it's just going to all work itself out because his already superior hands are going to improve even more in year 12 enough to offset that.

Also, less running = more passing sounds like something that would make sense. But in practice Peyton's best passing years have come in the years where Indy ran for the most yards. And Peyton's far and away worst season (aside from his rookie year) came in the year where Edge was injured and the rushing game struggled some. So in practice, it seems the exact polar opposite of what you say here is more the case with Peyton/Indy, if not most teams in general.
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Re: P. Manning value uprising

Postby aaawall91 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:17 pm

Yeah I was just throwing some ideas around there, wasn't really sure how it would all come together, was looking for more feedback than anything, so thanks, and what you say makes sense, although I think Harrison is in a better position to succeed in his situation with a slight skill decline than what Rice and Brown were, from the QB down.
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