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My Reaction to Rice Being Cut

Postby deerayfan072 » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:49 am

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Re: My Reaction to Rice Being Cut

Postby sappisgod » Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:17 am

I gotta disagree. For one, if they thought he was ready to go for the season as the "same old Sim", they wouldn't have cut him. There's just no doubting that. No one cuts a pro bowl player who is 100% and under contract. You also called bull on the failed physical line, yet Rice himself said that he would be "ready to go in about 3-4 weeks". So at best, according to the guy who would want to defend himself, he isn't healthy right now. I don't know about that 3-4 week projection either as recovery has many times taken longer than players expect. Culpepper, Roethlisberger, Mike Vick's broken leg, Kellen Winslow, Brian Finneran. Plenty of guys have come back later than expected or played at noticably less than 100% when they should have been healthy according to projections. Also, Lynch didn't agree with our team doctors assessment of his health, so he went to an outside source who actually agreed with them. Quarles is retired and it doesn't seem like he's coming back to play for anyone this season.

Everyone knew Sim was gone after this year anyway, so unless he could be a force this season, or play it out healthy, he wasn't worth keeping on. I really doubt they waited this long to release him just as a slap in Rice's face. To think that the front office is actually spending time looking for ways to disrespect players they don't particularly like just seems like a jaded fan response. You don't just hand a player of Rice's talent his walking papers unless something is wrong, I don't care if you're Bill Belicheck or Marty Mornhinweg.

I also don't know about your comparison to Mario Williams. Williams wasn't a complete pass rusher, nor had the mold of one, coming out of college and had injury issues. A better comparison, from a player standpoint, would be Kam Wimbley or Tamba Hali who both had very nice rookie seasons (62 tackles, 11 sacks and 58 tackles, 8 sacks, 5 FFs respectively). Even Mark Anderson with his 12 sacks, 4 FFs. Not saying he'll be as successful as they were their first seasons, but he's more comparable to those type of players than a 6'7, 290 lb beast Mario.
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Re: My Reaction to Rice Being Cut

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:45 am

sappisgod wrote:I gotta disagree. For one, if they thought he was ready to go for the season as the "same old Sim", they wouldn't have cut him. There's just no doubting that. No one cuts a pro bowl player who is 100% and under contract. You also called bull on the failed physical line, yet Rice himself said that he would be "ready to go in about 3-4 weeks". So at best, according to the guy who would want to defend himself, he isn't healthy right now. I don't know about that 3-4 week projection either as recovery has many times taken longer than players expect. Culpepper, Roethlisberger, Mike Vick's broken leg, Kellen Winslow, Brian Finneran. Plenty of guys have come back later than expected or played at noticably less than 100% when they should have been healthy according to projections. Also, Lynch didn't agree with our team doctors assessment of his health, so he went to an outside source who actually agreed with them. Quarles is retired and it doesn't seem like he's coming back to play for anyone this season.


The fact is they could have put him on the PUP list. Other teams have done this with guys like Seymour, Kevin Jones, etc etc. I have been told by many players many times that if they want to keep you they will find a way to keep you. The reason Lynch did not agree was becuase the doctors were wrong, i talked with John about that very thing. I just find it funny that every time a veteran goes to a physical they are failing it. If a team wants you to fail a physical they can make anyone fail a physical.

sappisgod wrote:Everyone knew Sim was gone after this year anyway, so unless he could be a force this season, or play it out healthy, he wasn't worth keeping on. I really doubt they waited this long to release him just as a slap in Rice's face. To think that the front office is actually spending time looking for ways to disrespect players they don't particularly like just seems like a jaded fan response. You don't just hand a player of Rice's talent his walking papers unless something is wrong, I don't care if you're Bill Belicheck or Marty Mornhinweg.


Sim was gone this year, but the fact is we needed him this year. When healthy, which Sim says he will be, he is one of the most dominant pass rushers in the league. Also, keeping him on to sub in and out with Gaines could only help him stay healthy and fresh. This is about the amount of money Sim is making. Trust me, Gruden does not respect players and syas one thing to there face and another behind their back. As far as the timing goes, maybe they did not do it on purpose maybe they did, but you have to admit that the timing was horrible. Sim is trying out for other teams and taking physicals, i guess we shall see.

sappisgod wrote:I also don't know about your comparison to Mario Williams. Williams wasn't a complete pass rusher, nor had the mold of one, coming out of college and had injury issues. A better comparison, from a player standpoint, would be Kam Wimbley or Tamba Hali who both had very nice rookie seasons (62 tackles, 11 sacks and 58 tackles, 8 sacks, 5 FFs respectively). Even Mark Anderson with his 12 sacks, 4 FFs. Not saying he'll be as successful as they were their first seasons, but he's more comparable to those type of players than a 6'7, 290 lb beast Mario.


Gaines was graded out better than Mario. I guess my main point with the Williams comparison was the fact of a high D-Line pick in the draft and the expectations that come with it. Yes Williams is not a complete pass rusher, but Adams is not a complete D-Line man. Adams has been horrible against the run and basically is a young Simeon Rice. They are working with him on the run and I am confident he will become more of a complete DE and not just a pass rusher, but this year expect him to mainly be a [ass rush specialist like he was in Clemson.
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Re: My Reaction to Rice Being Cut

Postby sappisgod » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:17 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:The fact is they could have put him on the PUP list. Other teams have done this with guys like Seymour, Kevin Jones, etc etc. I have been told by many players many times that if they want to keep you they will find a way to keep you.


Putting a guy on the PUP list who's gone at the end of the year doesn't help us much. We pay him 7 mil to sit on the PUP list, maybe contribute once he gets off. I mean, do you actually expect Simeon to dominate like old Sim this season, even for half a season? I wasn't really expecting it, and I thought the guy was completely healthy!

deerayfan072 wrote:The reason Lynch did not agree was becuase the doctors were wrong, i talked with John about that very thing. I just find it funny that every time a veteran goes to a physical they are failing it. If a team wants you to fail a physical they can make anyone fail a physical.


The doctors were wrong in that instance, but if you were running an organization, who would you listen to? The player is ALWAYS going to say he's fine. The qualified medical opinion gets the nod every time.

And guys always failing physicals? Quarles had a problem with concussions. Lynch had major neck surgery. This isn't some pulled hamstring BS, these are actual, serious injuries to players in their 30's. Sim is the only one who you might have an argument for, but who knows at this point? Even Sim says he's not ready to go right now, so it seems questioning his health isn't completely unwarranted.

deerayfan072 wrote:Sim was gone this year, but the fact is we needed him this year. When healthy, which Sim says he will be, he is one of the most dominant pass rushers in the league.


When will he be healthy though? You know as well as I do if Sim was ready to go, there would be 15 teams offering him big, if back-loaded, contracts. I've heard the Giants are bringing him in for an interview, also the Titans. Thats it! Those are the only teams that have shown interest in him.

deerayfan072 wrote:Also, keeping him on to sub in and out with Gaines could only help him stay healthy and fresh.


That I agree with, but with his health, his lack of future in Tampa, and his salary; it wasn't worth it to keep him as a situational pass rusher.

deerayfan072 wrote:This is about the amount of money Sim is making. Trust me, Gruden does not respect players and syas one thing to there face and another behind their back. As far as the timing goes, maybe they did not do it on purpose maybe they did, but you have to admit that the timing was horrible. Sim is trying out for other teams and taking physicals, i guess we shall see.


No, they didn't do it on purpose. I'm pretty open to any arguments, but that is just one I'm not willing to even consider. Who would wait until TC to cut Sim JUST out of spite? Maybe so teams don't have the cap space to sign him because they used it all up, or didn't want to make an addition that late in the game. Maybe to give him more time to recover, to see if he was healthy now as opposed to when FA started in March(when he was only 3 months removed from surgery). Really though, to think the sole motivation of the front office was Gruden plotting some way to stick it to Sim just doesn't make a ton of sense. Again, who WANTS to get rid of a Pro Bowl caliber DE?! Sim and Gruden have had their problems before, but Gruden didn't want Simeon gone because he PRODUCED. They apparently didn't think he was going to this season, and cut ties.

The timing was horrible. But Rice could very well still be here if he had taken a pay cut to just under 5 mil, like they offered. He turned it down, and sealed his own fate.

deerayfan072 wrote:Gaines was graded out better than Mario. I guess my main point with the Williams comparison was the fact of a high D-Line pick in the draft and the expectations that come with it. Yes Williams is not a complete pass rusher, but Adams is not a complete D-Line man. Adams has been horrible against the run and basically is a young Simeon Rice. They are working with him on the run and I am confident he will become more of a complete DE and not just a pass rusher, but this year expect him to mainly be a [ass rush specialist like he was in Clemson.


Exactly, and pass rush specialists have a tendency to translate easier than complete DEs. Take, for example, Elvis Dumervil, a very good pass rusher and poor run stopper. He was able to immediately impact the Broncos as a situational pass rusher, because guys that can come around the edge are always going to be a threat and don't need years of experience to rush the passer, only to hone their skills.
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Re: My Reaction to Rice Being Cut

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:31 pm

Quarles may have had problems with concussions, but he is fine trust me. Also, his "failed physical" was about his knee not head. I guess we have to agree to disagree.
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Re: My Reaction to Rice Being Cut

Postby sappisgod » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:42 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:Quarles may have had problems with concussions, but he is fine trust me. Also, his "failed physical" was about his knee not head. I guess we have to agree to disagree.


I forgot about his knee problems, which is just another detractor to keeping him.
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Re: My Reaction to Rice Being Cut

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:56 pm

sappisgod wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:Quarles may have had problems with concussions, but he is fine trust me. Also, his "failed physical" was about his knee not head. I guess we have to agree to disagree.


I forgot about his knee problems, which is just another detractor to keeping him.


like i said, agree to disagree. Quarles is still perfectly healthy to play, he has many offers, but wants to stay in Tampa for his family. Thats why he is not playing, he almost made the pro bwol last year
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Re: My Reaction to Rice Being Cut

Postby sappisgod » Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:39 am

deerayfan072 wrote:like i said, agree to disagree. Quarles is still perfectly healthy to play, he has many offers, but wants to stay in Tampa for his family. Thats why he is not playing, he almost made the pro bwol last year


Even when he was considering coming back, the only team I heard in connection with it was Detroit. Quarles was past his prime. He managed to put it off, and play like a wild man in 05, but between his missed games and lesser play in 06 (to his credit none of our LBs played up to par last year, even DB with his Pro Bowl alternate on name only), he was on the inevitable slide to retirement. As I mentioned in the Leftover section, we get slammed for being so old on D and when we replace those old names with young, high picks like Ruud and Adams, we still get crap for it. I'm not exactly sure what we're supposed to do to not get criticized.
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Re: My Reaction to Rice Being Cut

Postby deerayfan072 » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:56 am

sappisgod wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:like i said, agree to disagree. Quarles is still perfectly healthy to play, he has many offers, but wants to stay in Tampa for his family. Thats why he is not playing, he almost made the pro bwol last year


Even when he was considering coming back, the only team I heard in connection with it was Detroit. Quarles was past his prime. He managed to put it off, and play like a wild man in 05, but between his missed games and lesser play in 06 (to his credit none of our LBs played up to par last year, even DB with his Pro Bowl alternate on name only), he was on the inevitable slide to retirement. As I mentioned in the Leftover section, we get slammed for being so old on D and when we replace those old names with young, high picks like Ruud and Adams, we still get crap for it. I'm not exactly sure what we're supposed to do to not get criticized.


I love Ruud and i think he will have a great season. Yea we may be "old" on D, but that was not the reason they were bad last year, many of them were playing out of position b/c the coach was bad (secondary guys), we were missing Kelly, Sim was hurt, White was ineffective, and so was Booger.
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Re: My Reaction to Rice Being Cut

Postby deerayfan072 » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:07 pm

By the way, Simeon Rice passed a physical given to him by Dr. Andrews. Andrews asked what kind of physical they gave him that he failed. Andrews is THE specialist for the NFL and if he passed him, than he should have passed ours.
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