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Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

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Re: Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

Postby moochman » Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:52 pm

SniperShot wrote:
biju wrote:People hate cheaters and the Patriots are cheaters.
It might be important to point out the Patriots were cheaters. They crushed the Chargers totally fair and square last Sunday night...


Crushing a Norv Turner team never required cheating. Dumb Bolts FO will reap what is has sown and fans will long for Martyball.
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Re: Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

Postby Cowboys 4 life » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:09 pm

moochman wrote:Crushing a Norv Turner team never required cheating. Dumb Bolts FO will reap what is has sown and fans will long for Martyball.


Exactly. I can't believe you fire a coach after a season like that. Not to mention the few before where he took a near .500 team to playoff status. Norv has some Shaq size shoes to fill.
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Re: Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

Postby Kilroy » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:25 am

knapplc wrote:
moonhead wrote:yeap. this scandal is ridiculous. but that is the nature of sports reporting now. america eats up scandals. it is pretty sad. i don't want stories, espn, i want the facts. oh well, what can you do? they really have the market cornered.

Amen, brother. I've been against this "scandal" since day one - not because the Patsies are not guilty (they are) but because it's just not that rare of an occurrence.

Then on top of that you have the irrationally vitriolic anti-Belichick crowd and this whole situation quickly tips beyond the ridiculous.

All teams "stretch the rules" to gain an edge. My team does it. Your team does it. Not one franchise in the NFL is free of this kind of thing. Calling for huge amounts of harms to be ladled on to the New England franchise is just silly.

There is NO WAY there is this same amount of headhunting going on if this is the Buccaneers getting caught doing this. But since the Pats have beaten up on half the league over the past five years, suddenly they're evil.

Sorry, not rational.


Couldn't agree more. If it had been the Lions you wouldn't have seen a tenth of the righteous indignation that's been bandied about regarding this "scandal".

Also, if Billick's accusation that the Jets "cheated" last week by illegally trying to cause false starts is any indication Mangini's dime-dropping may not have been well-received by some of his fellow coaches.

One more thing...If Mangini knew about the Pats' doing this all this time (as some folks seen more than willing to jump to the conclusion that Belicheck has been doing it ever since, well, ever.), then why didn't he say something about it before the Jets and Patriots played each other last year in the flipping playoffs?
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Re: Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

Postby matmat » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:14 am

SniperShot wrote: It might be important to point out the Patriots were cheaters. They crushed the Chargers totally fair and square last Sunday night...


are you sure?
i mean... are you *really* sure?
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Re: Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

Postby moochman » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:16 am

matmat wrote:
SniperShot wrote: It might be important to point out the Patriots were cheaters. They crushed the Chargers totally fair and square last Sunday night...


are you sure?
i mean... are you *really* sure?


That is the crux of this whole mess-we are no longer sure. Did the Pats win 3 titles? Yes. Did they win them without cheating? Doesn't appear likely. Would they have won them if they didnt' cheat? Not really sure.
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Re: Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

Postby knapplc » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:30 am

moochman wrote:
matmat wrote:
SniperShot wrote: It might be important to point out the Patriots were cheaters. They crushed the Chargers totally fair and square last Sunday night...


are you sure?
i mean... are you *really* sure?


That is the crux of this whole mess-we are no longer sure. Did the Pats win 3 titles? Yes. Did they win them without cheating? Doesn't appear likely. Would they have won them if they didnt' cheat? Not really sure.


It doesn't appear any more likely that they DID cheat. It's like the old logic test. All A's are B's. Some B's are C's. Therefore, all A's are C's. Of course all A's are not C's. It's pretty obvious that we don't know that based on the info we have.

What is also obvious is that people seem to be unable to divorce their personal dislikes of the Pats and/or Bill Belichick from this situation.
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Re: Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

Postby ivesaidway2much » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:40 am

knapplc wrote:
moonhead wrote:yeap. this scandal is ridiculous. but that is the nature of sports reporting now. america eats up scandals. it is pretty sad. i don't want stories, espn, i want the facts. oh well, what can you do? they really have the market cornered.

Amen, brother. I've been against this "scandal" since day one - not because the Patsies are not guilty (they are) but because it's just not that rare of an occurrence.

Then on top of that you have the irrationally vitriolic anti-Belichick crowd and this whole situation quickly tips beyond the ridiculous.

All teams "stretch the rules" to gain an edge. My team does it. Your team does it. Not one franchise in the NFL is free of this kind of thing. Calling for huge amounts of harms to be ladled on to the New England franchise is just silly.

There is NO WAY there is this same amount of headhunting going on if this is the Buccaneers getting caught doing this. But since the Pats have beaten up on half the league over the past five years, suddenly they're evil.

Sorry, not rational.
Could the same logic be used to defend people taking performance-enhancing drugs? Let's just say for arguments sake, that a large number of players are taking them, and not one team in the league is completely clean. If the NFL was the MLB from ten years ago. With even coaches taking them nowadays, would injecting performance-enhancing drugs be okay then?
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Re: Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

Postby matmat » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:36 am

knapplc wrote:
It doesn't appear any more likely that they DID cheat. It's like the old logic test. All A's are B's. Some B's are C's. Therefore, all A's are C's. Of course all A's are not C's. It's pretty obvious that we don't know that based on the info we have.

What is also obvious is that people seem to be unable to divorce their personal dislikes of the Pats and/or Bill Belichick from this situation.


i like the logic argument here, but i think not all As must be Cs, however, without additional information you don't know that all As are not, in fact, Cs either.

the point is that they were caught cheating. the admitted to cheating. the image is tarnished and for quite a while now anything that they do will be questioned. but maybe they just found a more subtle way to heat? hmmmm?
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Re: Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

Postby moochman » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:50 am

knapplc wrote:
moochman wrote:
matmat wrote:i mean... are you *really* sure?


That is the crux of this whole mess-we are no longer sure. Did the Pats win 3 titles? Yes. Did they win them without cheating? Doesn't appear likely. Would they have won them if they didnt' cheat? Not really sure.


It doesn't appear any more likely that they DID cheat. It's like the old logic test. All A's are B's. Some B's are C's. Therefore, all A's are C's. Of course all A's are not C's. It's pretty obvious that we don't know that based on the info we have.

What is also obvious is that people seem to be unable to divorce their personal dislikes of the Pats and/or Bill Belichick from this situation.


Maybe not so obvious. I have always been a Patriots fan. I love the way they've constructed their team over the years. But the fact is that nobody can say with any certainty that the Patriots won those Super Bowls without cheating. I would take it further and say that if Belichick won those titles without cheating at any point during those seasons or games why would he suddenly decide to cheat? So then, it would be hard to imagine that he didn't cheat during the Super Bowl winning eras. The real issue then is what does that do to the integrity of the game? Could you conceive of a Pats' team that didn't cheat not winning those Super Bowls. Not unthinkable, in fact plausible given how closeley those games were and how hard it was to get there. And he gets a fine and the fans lose a draft pick? Seems a light slap on the wrist for tainting the game.

And for you conspiracy theorists out there: Why did the NFL destroy all the evidence?
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Re: Jimmy Johnson admits to videotaping signals for Dallas/KC/Mi

Postby ThunderSnarfer » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:16 am

People have gotta move on from this, they got caught, they paid the price. Even if you do doubt the validity of the super bowls, which is an awesome excuse if youre the eagles, rams, or panthers, whats more important is the 2-0 record and dominating performance against SD. Why is everyone on the SD lost the game instead of the the Patriots won the game bandwagon? Simply put, America wanted the pats to lose, and until they do, the "the pats cant win without their cameras" will re-emerge. Pats are the team to beat this year. Not because of the scandal, but because they are the best team in the league. Im a pats fan, and think it was stupid what they did, and agree they should have been punished, I do not, however, think that if the pats go 19-0 (98% likelihood) this season and win the super bowl that this issue should be brought back up. Move on, the Patriots have, so should fans of the NFL.
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