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bench depth or better starters?

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bench depth or better starters?

Postby default01 » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:51 pm

Is it good to trade bench depth for better starters in anticipation of playoffs or to have the bench available for bye weeks?

I'm in a 14 team league and this is my team:

Start:
QB: J. Kitna
WR: T. Owens
WR: S. Moss
RB: F. Gore
RB: M. Lynch
W/R: A. Peterson(Min)
W/R: D. Bowe
W/R: S. Holmes
TE: B. Watson
K: R. Gould
DEF: Washington

Bench:
QB: E. Manning
WR: S. McDonald
WR: J. Jones(GB)
RB: B. Leonard
RB: A. Stecker

Since the league is 14 teams and we start so many players, there are several teams that could use Eli, McDonald, or Jones as a starter. Would it be better to hang onto these players or package them with a current starter and try to trade them?

Would something like this be a reasonable trade offer to attempt to improve my starting WR?
D. Brees, M. Harrison, E. Kennison -for- E. Manning, S. Moss, S. McDonald
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Re: bench depth or better starters?

Postby latraffic » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:19 am

No, I don't think you need to be making moves to trade away your bench. You're in a good position from the looks of your roster. If you do want to try and get a better WR, don't package it like you have as your example. Instead, find the guy who NEEDS a QB (whoever has Brees or Delhomme or Lienhard, etc), see what WRs he has, then put out a trade of Eli for his best WR. See how I'm thinking?
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Re: bench depth or better starters?

Postby FFisLife » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:14 pm

LATraffic is exactly right...use your depth to your advantage in offering a trade. Find that guy who needs a Quarterback (not a back up). Eli will definitely be better than a lot of team's starters out there so they should deal if they're smart.

One strategy that I like to use is to propose the trade with a counter offer in mind and try to get the upper hand in the negotiations. For example: Propose Eli to the guy that desperately needs a quarterback. All you may want for Eli is one of his better players but ask for more. This not only makes them think that you have placed a higher value on your player but it takes the hurt out of them letting go of one of their better players and viewing it as a fair trade when they counter offer.

If you offer Eli up for 2 of their players (ex. 1 good player and 1 average player or 2 good players) it immediately says to them that your player is worth a lot to you and they may not get that quarterback they need if they don't take your offer seriously. They of course will want to get the best deal they can as well so they will most likely make a counter offer. Their good player is of high value in their eyes and they feel that it would be a fair trade if they offered their good player for your good player. This is what you originally wanted all along yet you may not have got it if you would have tried this offer the first time around.

If you would have tried to offer Eli for their good player straight up, they would probably decline the trade or make a counter offer for someone you didn't want because they feel that their player is worth more than yours. Everybody feels that their players are worth more than others and we always try to get the best deal. If you approach the trade the right way you're more likely to get what you want.

With that said...there are some guys out there that would rather lose than make a trade involving one of their good players. They think that one player is going to carry them through. This usually isn't the case (unless you owned LT last year :-).

Regardless, always try to get the upper hand when trading. Good Luck!


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QB ---- Rodgers
RB ---- SJAX, Jones-Drew
W/T -- T.O., Wayne, Fitzgerald, Marshall
K ------ Elam
Def ----Tenn

8 Team PPR League
Starters: 1 QB, 2 RB, 4 W/T, 1 K, 1 DEF
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Re: bench depth or better starters?

Postby default01 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:23 pm

These are the four opponents I've identified that I think could use Eli the most. Which one is better to trade with and which players should I pursue? I'm not looking for a specific position but just overall improvement. If I trade Eli and don't get a decent backup or trade for a guy with a week 6 bye, I'm basically guaranteed to lose that week. So far my team is 3-1 in 3rd place and also 3rd in points.

Opponent 1 (0-4) - one of two guys not really paying attention to team
QB: Drew Brees, Steve McNair
WR: Marvin Harrison, Donald Driver, Eddie Kennison, Drew Carter
RB: Tatum Bell, Rudi Johnson, DeShaun Foster, Michael Turner, Earnest Graham
TE: Alge Crumpler
K: David Akers, Joe Nedney
DEF: New England, Green Bay

Opponent 2 (3-1) - 2nd place (1st in points)
QB: Marc Bulger, Derek Anderson, Brian Griese
WR: Randy Moss, Joey Galloway, Brandon Marshall, Isaac Bruce
RB: Brian Westbrook, Willis McGahee, Reuben Droughns, Leon Washington, Kevin Jones
TE: Donald Lee, Jeff King
K: Nick Folk
DEF: Seattle

Opponent 3 (3-1) - in 5th place (5th in points)
QB: Philip Rivers, Alex Smith, Trent Green
WR: Plaxico Burress, Laveranues Coles, Ronald Curry, Devin Hester, Jerricho Cotchery, Jerry Porter
RB: Larry Johnson, Edgerrin James
TE: Antonio Gates
K: Matt Stover, Jeff Wilkins
DEF: Indianapolis, San Francisco

Opponent 4 (4-0) - 1st place (9th in points)
QB: Jay Cutler, Joey Harrington
WR: Reggie Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Vincent Jackson, Roydell Williams, Nate Burleson, Kevin Curtis
RB: Steven Jackson, Clinton Portis, Najeh Davenport, Warrick Dunn, Dominic Rhodes
TE: Heath Miller
K: Neil Rackers
DEF: Houston
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Re: bench depth or better starters?

Postby FFisLife » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:34 pm

Need to know a few things first....Who's available on the Free Agent list for the TE position and the QB position? Do you get points for REC? Do you get points for yardage?

JDub
QB ---- Rodgers
RB ---- SJAX, Jones-Drew
W/T -- T.O., Wayne, Fitzgerald, Marshall
K ------ Elam
Def ----Tenn

8 Team PPR League
Starters: 1 QB, 2 RB, 4 W/T, 1 K, 1 DEF
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Re: bench depth or better starters?

Postby default01 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:01 pm

These are the league settings for offense:
Passing Yards (35 yards per point)
Passing Touchdowns (6)
Interceptions (-2)
Rushing Yards (15 yards per point)
Rushing Touchdowns (6)
Reception Yards (15 yards per point)
Reception Touchdowns (6)
Return Yards (50 yards per point)
Return Touchdowns (6)
2-Point Conversions (2)
Fumbles Lost (-2)

Available TE's: Jeremy Shockey, L.J. Smith, Randy McMichael, Bo Scaife, Eric Johnson

Available QB's: Kurt Warner, Tarvaris Jackson, Alex Smith (Opponent 3 just dropped for Wynn), J.P. Losman, Damon Huard

Thanks for the continued help.
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Re: bench depth or better starters?

Postby FFisLife » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:18 pm

Ok...here's what I'd do:

Offer a trade to either opponent #1 or opponent #3. These guys are in the most need because of their record and are more likely to trade.

Offer opponent #1

Eli Manning and Santana Moss
for
Donald Driver, Drew Brees, and Green Bay's Defense

Brees has already had his bye and can go nowhere but up from here. He's shown in the past that he is capable of performing and I think it's just a matter of time before he gets back on track (my opinion, but I practice what I preach and have him as my back up on my roster, just so you know). Now's the perfect time to grab him while his stock is down and his owner is probably ready to deal him.

Driver is solid every year as long as he's healthy and Favre is throwing the ball well (which both of these are occurring right now). "The Donald" is also one of Favre's favorite targets. Driver is a much more solid option than Santana Moss and would definately strengthen your team in my opinion.

Green Bay's defense would be a solid addition to your team which I would start instead of Washington if you get them.

What will probably happen is that he'll counter you (if he's interested in trading) for just 2 of the 3 players that you wanted, which is fine because the object of the trade is to get either Driver or Green Bay's Defense. If he counters you with just those two and not Brees, even better. It would be worth trying to either make another trade for a back up QB or pick one up off the free agent list.

Hope this all makes sense.

I'll post the other trade you could offer in another post (fingers are tired of typing right now :-))

Remember these are just my suggestions, opinions, and hunches, so do what you want with them but this is what I would do if I was in your situation!

JDub
QB ---- Rodgers
RB ---- SJAX, Jones-Drew
W/T -- T.O., Wayne, Fitzgerald, Marshall
K ------ Elam
Def ----Tenn

8 Team PPR League
Starters: 1 QB, 2 RB, 4 W/T, 1 K, 1 DEF
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Re: bench depth or better starters?

Postby FFisLife » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:50 pm

Here's the other trade you could offer to opponent #3:

You offer
Eli Manning and Santana Moss

for

Phillip Rivers, Laveranues Coles, and Antonio Gates

I know this looks way lop sided but here's the thinking behind it. The goal is to get Coles who is a solid consistent receiver. If you would have offered Eli and Moss for Rivers and Coles he would probably counter with Rivers and one of the other receivers behind Coles. ( Remember we all think are players are worth more than the other owners players are) By adding Gates in the mix it takes the focus off Coles and puts it on the fact that you are damn crazy to even think about trying to get Gates on top of those other two elite players. Now in his mind he has justified that he would be giving up way too much if Gates was to go with the others, but take Gates out of the mix and it looks a lot more fair. He gets a better QB, for the time being anyway...(I think Rivers is going to have a strong second half), so Eli for Rivers is justified in his mind now and then when he looks at Coles for Moss he thinks that the little more he may give up in return for Moss would be justified to get Eli.

He may also counter with Trent Green and Coles in stead of Rivers. This is fine too. Trent Green doesn't put up huge numbers but he's fairly consistent at getting positive points for you and a good back up QB. Remember the object of the trade is to get Coles anyway.

Notice though that I didn't have you try to get his #1 receiver in Harrison. That would definitely blow it right away along with Gates. You can use this strategy with any trade you make and have a good chance at being successful. You just have to be honest with yourself as to the real value of your players in the league's eyes.

One last thing...it just might happen that you have owners in your league that think their players are worth gold and they won't trade unless it's really one sided in their favor. These guys are in every league and usually end up losing because they are so stingy. Don't cave and let them take you down. Avoid these guys like the plague and watch them blow their chances at winning.

My motto is that I'll trade anyone if it will make my team better overall or help me down the road. You may find that Moss's value is lower right now (injuries) and owners may not want him unless they are desperate for a QB.

If this is the case you can always try the 1 for 1 trade Eli for one of their players that is better at a position that you're weaker (ex...TE Gates?) and then take a chance on a back up QB on the free agent list.

If nothing else, whether you make a trade or not, I hope you were able to get a good glimpse into the thinking by some managers, when it comes to trades. There are guys a lot better at this stuff than me that probably do it a whole different way, but learn from us all and develop your own trading psychology.

Anyway I'm worn out from all this typing...let us know what you decided to do. Good Luck!

JDub
QB ---- Rodgers
RB ---- SJAX, Jones-Drew
W/T -- T.O., Wayne, Fitzgerald, Marshall
K ------ Elam
Def ----Tenn

8 Team PPR League
Starters: 1 QB, 2 RB, 4 W/T, 1 K, 1 DEF
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Re: bench depth or better starters?

Postby default01 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:33 pm

Thanks again for the help.

I had been hoping to be able to reply with some results but have not gotten a deal done yet. After looking over your suggestions, I sent the first one but never received a response. The team involved in the second suggestion picked up Kurt Warner after Leinart was injured so he may not be as interested in trading for Eli now.

Since this week is Kitna's bye, I decided to use Eli now and then try to make something happen next week.
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