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Re: OFFICIAL CAFE Top 25

Postby HskrPwr13 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:04 pm

ShoelessJoe wrote:
HskrPwr13 wrote:
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, Shoeless, or anyone else for that matter that has shown the proprensity to vote with this type of logic, but this line of thinking truly "concerns" me. By the logic I'm reading above, hypothetically you're saying that if USF looks the same as they do now at the end of the season (I guess that would mean they lose one more somewhere along the way), and Michigan lost Mallett/Henne/Hart, whatever, on their way to losing 3 in a row, then they all got healthy and blew out Ohio State 50-10, you would then go ahead and put Michigan above USF because at that point you might "feel" that Mich would beat USF on a neutral field? Please explain how this logic isnt flawed! I can buy the neutral field argument when all things are equal, but things arent equal in this scenario. USF has clearly been more impressive, based on the year's results, than Mich has this year, regardless of which team you actually think would win in a hypothetical head-to-head matchup. Hek, I think Rutgers, when they bring they're "A" game, could beat anyone, but that doenst mean I should give them the benefit of the doubt and honor them with a ranking that they clearly havent earned.

Michigan = Have beaten a decent Illinois team and no one else (dont try to kid me with Purdue). Have been beaten by a good 1-AA team at home. Have been destroyed at home by a top Oregon team. Have looked better lately than the way they started the season.

South Florida = Have beaten a top WVU and a very good Auburn. Have been beaten by a decent Rutgers team.


I see your point and I may be coming around on it a bit. Maybe it should be a mix between the two. A sort of 50/50 between past performance and current quality. (Good example with the injuries)

I also think it's important though when you look at wins/losses that you examine when the game was played. USF beat Auburn before their defense really picked it up and before they had Brad Lester back. Also, Brandon Cox started playing much better after the Miss St game. The more I do this the more I realize how much work this really takes if you do it right. To truly know this stuff about Auburn, you really have to follow them closely and there's no way I could follow 40-50 teams that closely.

Going back to the injuries point though. If somebody is injured and it causes your team a loss (see Cal two weeks ago, they probably would've won that game with Longshore in there) how do you weigh that into the ranking? Is it a negative? Is it a positive? Is it a negative but not as bad b/c they had a key player injured?


I appreciate your response and taking my questioning in the respectful manner that it was intended.
I agree with your second paragraph thoughts. Its much easier to be "correct" about the team(s) or conference(s) that you're more in tune with as a fan. I'm thinking that I may have OU lower than most here because I've been able to discern over their past 2 road games that they are somewhat suspect on the road. Others that dont predominetly follow the Big12 may not come to that conclusion (or I could just be wrong. :-b ).
Regarding your 3rd paragraph, my thoughts are, that if its a one-game type situation where a team loses their QB, for example, and then gets beat by an inferior team, I may not hold it against them unless I'm pitting them against an equalling deserving zero loss team. If they lose more than one game due to a player injury, I'll probably drop them due to my thinking that to some degree, this is a one-horse team. If you can find a black and white answer to that question, then let me know. ;-D
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Re: OFFICIAL CAFE Top 25

Postby statsman88 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:16 pm

HskrPwr13 wrote:
statsman88 wrote:I have USF ranked 7

And I also have Florida ranked second, because I believe that they are the 2nd best team in football. I know you can't get to into hypothetical situations but Auburn winning at Florida, then winning at Arkansas, then nearly pulling one out against most likely the best team in football on the road is pretty impressive. I really believe that they have greatly improved since those 2 early losses, I'm not basing it on them having 2 "quality loses". But why would I have Auburn ranked at #4 and USF at 7 when Auburn lost to them? Again, I just think that Auburn has greatly improved and is now a better team. You used the same judgement when you said that Michigan would now beat Appalachian St and thats fine.

And the time on the clock woulda been close, I realize that, maybe there's a tick left and a fairly long pressure field goal woulda been attempted. I was upset with Tuperville's use of his timeouts but thats another story. Still, a great game by 2 elite teams


How many losses would it take for you to feel that Auburn is no longer the 4th best team in the country? Your logic seems to dictate that you think they are the 4th best team (based on talent?) and no on-the-field results are going to change your mind.


If they lose any of the remaining 4 games on thier schedule, I'll move them down. But I don't think they will, which is why I have them 4th, because I believe they have been a legit top 5 team since wk3. And I believe that their performance for a month and a half is a large enough sample size to judge them, especially when they've been playing the best teams in the country.
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Re: OFFICIAL CAFE Top 25

Postby HskrPwr13 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:21 pm

statsman88 wrote:
HskrPwr13 wrote:
statsman88 wrote:I have USF ranked 7

And I also have Florida ranked second, because I believe that they are the 2nd best team in football. I know you can't get to into hypothetical situations but Auburn winning at Florida, then winning at Arkansas, then nearly pulling one out against most likely the best team in football on the road is pretty impressive. I really believe that they have greatly improved since those 2 early losses, I'm not basing it on them having 2 "quality loses". But why would I have Auburn ranked at #4 and USF at 7 when Auburn lost to them? Again, I just think that Auburn has greatly improved and is now a better team. You used the same judgement when you said that Michigan would now beat Appalachian St and thats fine.

And the time on the clock woulda been close, I realize that, maybe there's a tick left and a fairly long pressure field goal woulda been attempted. I was upset with Tuperville's use of his timeouts but thats another story. Still, a great game by 2 elite teams


How many losses would it take for you to feel that Auburn is no longer the 4th best team in the country? Your logic seems to dictate that you think they are the 4th best team (based on talent?) and no on-the-field results are going to change your mind.


If they lose any of the remaining 4 games on thier schedule, I'll move them down. But I don't think they will, which is why I have them 4th, because I believe they have been a legit top 5 team since wk3. And I believe that their performance for a month and a half is a large enough sample size to judge them, especially when they've been playing the best teams in the country.


Going with the the "this is how I think they will finish the year" ranking system. I personally dont like that, but I know that lots of voters do it that way. Thanks for the repsonse.
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Re: OFFICIAL CAFE Top 25

Postby Jimboozie » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:27 pm

I'm gonna try to give this a shot. :-b
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Re: OFFICIAL CAFE Top 25

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:46 pm

Got some in

Waiting on the following:

Met
Cowboys4life
Sandrock
Jayday
Moon
Knapp
Fantasyman
Dolfin
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Re: OFFICIAL CAFE Top 25

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:Got some in

Waiting on the following:

Met
Cowboys4life
Sandrock
Jayday
Moon
Knapp
Fantasyman
Dolfin


Got Met and Knapps
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Re: OFFICIAL CAFE Top 25

Postby statsman88 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:35 pm

HskrPwr13 wrote:
statsman88 wrote:
HskrPwr13 wrote:
How many losses would it take for you to feel that Auburn is no longer the 4th best team in the country? Your logic seems to dictate that you think they are the 4th best team (based on talent?) and no on-the-field results are going to change your mind.


If they lose any of the remaining 4 games on thier schedule, I'll move them down. But I don't think they will, which is why I have them 4th, because I believe they have been a legit top 5 team since wk3. And I believe that their performance for a month and a half is a large enough sample size to judge them, especially when they've been playing the best teams in the country.


Going with the the "this is how I think they will finish the year" ranking system. I personally dont like that, but I know that lots of voters do it that way. Thanks for the repsonse.


well sorta. I'm mostly a "if team A plays team B on a neutral site who would win" type of voter.
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Re: OFFICIAL CAFE Top 25

Postby deerayfan072 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:42 pm

new thread is up
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