benb18a wrote:Manning is the best quarterback I have seen in my time. Brady is 1a, along with a prime Favre, but Manning just has it ALL. Peyton has not had the total team that Brady has had, especially on defense. Manning's football IQ has to be extremely high.
You're absolutely right, Peyton hasn't had a team like Brady has had...in the past few years, he's had much better. Brady was able to mold a bunch of no-name supporting offensive cast members around him to Super Bowl contenders and won 3 of them, whilst Manning has always had a very manageable middle-of-the-pack defense but a WORLD CLASS offense for as long as i can remember (Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Edge, Pollard, now Addai/Clark/Keith) and manage to scrounge up only 1 Championship title.
Now what does that tell you, about a QB that has won 3 titles with much lesser talent versus a QB who can get consistent numbers but has far and away better talent around him? (with the marginal exception of this season). Brady is the clear-cut choice here. Heaven only only knows if we'd even be having this conversation had Brady had his own Harrison/Wayne/Stokley (in Moss/Welker/Stallworth now) 3, 4, or even 5 years ago.
Azrael wrote:All other things being equal I'd go with Brady in both instances.
1. He's won multiple titles with half the talent Manning has had around him. Compare Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, David Patten, Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk, Daniel Graham versus Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Pollard, Clark, Edge. There's no comparison in who's had the most talent to work with. Manning has managed to win 1 Superbowl and he was lucky his defense got hot at the right time. Now Brady gets an infusion of talent at WR in Moss, Welker, and Stallworth and he's ripping teams to shreds.
2. If you are saying that next year if all things remain the same you are choosing Manning over Brady in fantasy, you are either a fool or a liar. You have a guy who has thrown more TD passes right now than Manning might all year and you would take Manning next year ahead of Brady? That's ridiculous. You draft based on current situation not what has happened in the past.
The hype will build all week but I think Indy is just another double digit victory under the Pats belt. I can't fathom how a team that has not won by less than 17 (and it wasn't that close) is only a 4 point favorite
You, sir, are a brilliant man.
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QB: Tom Brady
WR: Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Marvin Harrison
RB: LaDainian Tomlinson, Marshawn Lynch
W/R: Marion Barber III
TE: Chris Cooley
K: Shayne Graham
Manning is easily the best QB in the NFL. His consistency and his numbers speak for themselves. But the simple fact of the matter is that defense wins championships. It's no coincidence that Manning won his first Superbowl the year he finally got some decent defensive performances (especially in the run stopping department) in the playoffs. If Peyton had a defensive genius for a head coach, a defense anywhere near the calibre of the one the Patriots have fielded almost every season of Brady's career, OR quite possibly the best GM in football, Brady might not have won a single title. If Peyton had all three...
ivesaidway2much wrote:Manning is easily the best QB in the NFL. His consistency and his numbers speak for themselves. But the simple fact of the matter is that defense wins championships. It's no coincidence that Manning won his first Superbowl the year he finally got some decent defensive performances (especially in the run stopping department) in the playoffs. If Peyton had a defensive genius for a head coach, a defense anywhere near the calibre of the one the Patriots have fielded almost every season of Brady's career, OR quite possibly the best GM in football, Brady might not have won a single title. If Peyton had all three...
And if your aunt Mary had balls, she'd be your Uncle Frank... I always thought Dungy was a pretty highly rated D guy before he came to Indy, and have often wondered why the Colts D has been rather abysmal.
In the NFL, rings speak louder than just about everything else. Okay, there's the occasional Marino or (Bengals years) Dillon that far outshines his team. People seriously wondered if Manning would ever win a ring; Brady came in off the bench in the playoffs and beat Manning to the punch. Then added a couple more for good measure.
Brady is the best.
Whoever wins this week probably gets home field throughout the playoffs and another Super Bowl appearance, so Manning has the opportunity to narrow the gap, but there is a serious gap right now, one that threatens to become a gaping chasm if the Pats annihilate the Colts on their own "turf".
If you had asked me before the year started, I would've said Manning for fantasy and Brady for real life. By the end of this year it will probably end up being Brady for both, assuming Brady can keep up his torrid pace. We now see what Brady can do when he's given talented receivers, and Manning has had them almost his entire career and hasn't done anything near what Brady is accomplishing this season.
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All of these posts are great, but one thing. People who keep on saying Brady is the better QB over Manning because he has 3 rings (2 more than Manning), and his supporting cast was much weaker than Mannings, we're only talking about offense here. Why does whenever someone brings up the rings, Brady, or the Colts offense we're completely forgetting about how bad the Colts defense was. Like someone posted earlier, "Defense Wins Championships", look at last year, who was scared of the Bears offense? Let's be realistic here, Rex Grossman?? Scared of Rex Grossman?!? No way was I scared when the Jets played the Bears because of Rex Grossman. I know I was scared because of Brian Urlacher. C'mon now, we were all scared of the Bears defense. Even though they didn't win the Superbowl, there defense got them there and that lead them to a 13-3 record, not there astonishing offense, it was there defense. The Colts got lucky that there defense got hot at the right time. You can have the best offense in the world, if you end up playing a team with a spectacular defense, your offense isn't going to go anywhere.
I waffle on this sometimes because yes, Peyton has not had the defense that Brady has enjoyed thus far. That being said, the reverse is also true. And honestly, despite what is going on right now, would anyone REALLY rather have Moss, Welker, Stallworth than Harrison, Wayne, Clark/Stokely? I'm not entirely sold thus far.
On the other hand, the reason Peyton hasn't had that defense is because the team was putting their eggs in the offensive basket, so from where I sit, Peyton should have done more, because the funds and accordant strategy were centered on him and giving him weapons.
But this year, I don't think there is any question, Brady for Both. I think they are gunning at teams as well as Peyton personally and trying the best to get Brady the record.
It's a tough debate, but I still think until this year this was very much a Russell or Chamberlain debate. Russell won more, but chamberlain obliterated records, and it wasn't as if he was shut out in the championship department...
The opening scene of the movie "Saving Private Ryan" is loosely based on games of dodgeball Brian Dawkins played in second grade.
PMoneyTKE wrote:Talking about rings is a weak argument when comparing one QB with another. It takes a hell of a lot more than a good QB to win a superbowl ring.
Especially when guys like Dilfer and Johnson have won rings in the last several years... and they did it by much more than a fricking field goal. Let's not forget that even sorry Drew Bledsoe had led that Patriots team into the playoffs before Brady got his chance to shine. It's not like he inherited a talentless team and turned them into a dynasty with his arm alone. I need to see several seasons of 24+ TD football from Tom, not including running up the score by passing on fourth and goal when you're up by an insurmountable 35+ points in the fourth. Then I will consider him being better than Peyton. Until then, we might as well dub Troy Aikman as a better QB, because he has three rings
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