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Re: If the Pats...

Postby JasonSeahorn » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:03 pm

skibrett15 wrote:
CC wrote:
FantasyMan13 wrote:Well, there's only a handful of players in the NFL that can actually change gameplans and must be planned around, and he is definitely still one of them when healthy.


I definitely disagree that Harrison is a scheme changer, he is a great WR, but it is highly debatable that he is even the best WR on his team.

I think it's a scheme changer, but only in that they also have reggie wayne. Covering them both is much harder than only covering one. So with harrison out there you are gonna leave one of them more open than the other, or if you sell out on them you have dallas clark and anthony gonzalez. You spread yourself just a little thinner than you do with him out of the game. More room for blitzing.


i also noticed that they had hobbs covering wayne most of the time....hobbs is good but we paid all those millions for asante samuel, he might as well cover their best wide...
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Re: If the Pats...

Postby PMoneyTKE » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:05 pm

Moorehead dropped a pass in the endzone, I don't know how you CAN'T say that with Harrison in there it wouldn't have been a different game. I'm willing to bet that Harrison makes that catch 999 times out of a thousand. Either way it was a well played game and injuries are a part of football.

BTW whats a niners fan care about it anyway? Not another bandwagon fan are we?? :-D
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Re: If the Pats...

Postby jcde7ago » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:30 pm

PMoneyTKE wrote:Moorehead dropped a pass in the endzone, I don't know how you CAN'T say that with Harrison in there it wouldn't have been a different game. I'm willing to bet that Harrison makes that catch 999 times out of a thousand. Either way it was a well played game and injuries are a part of football.

BTW whats a niners fan care about it anyway? Not another bandwagon fan are we?? :-D


Wow, way to be a homer...yes, that's exactly it, i am another bandwagon fan. Or, just another person who can see past the b*tchin and whining of people who are always out to put something bad on the Pats. I think it's nice to hear a dissenting voice from time to time, from a non-Pats fan especially in a cafe seemingly full of Patriots-haters. That's pretty much my MO. In real life, in the cafe...iam just sick of hearing about how the pats are the big, evil meanies of the NFL. Even when they blowout other teams and play on a level not seen in this era, people cant just appreciate...they just pour on the haterade. Let's not forget that what they are doing has no ties with Spygate, and this season is completely clean. Yet so many people here still say "OMG they are cheaters" like they do something different every week to win a game. IT's like a no-win situation for Pats fans here, and as someone who isn't a Pats fan i feel like i gotta say something because this team gets so much flak in real life and in the cafe. I can't even begin to tell you how often my friends and i argue about the relevance of Spygate and such. And besides, what else do i have to talk about as a Niner fan? Don't accuse me of such childish crap like bandwagon jumping...i just appreciate a good team when i see it, and relish the fact that this generation might be witnessing the best offense the NFL has ever had and might witness only the 2nd team to go undefeated. If you can't appreciate that as a football fan...then iam pretty sure you didn't appreciate what ADP did yesterday either. :-°
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Re: If the Pats...

Postby PMoneyTKE » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:42 pm

jcde7ago wrote:
PMoneyTKE wrote:Moorehead dropped a pass in the endzone, I don't know how you CAN'T say that with Harrison in there it wouldn't have been a different game. I'm willing to bet that Harrison makes that catch 999 times out of a thousand. Either way it was a well played game and injuries are a part of football.

BTW whats a niners fan care about it anyway? Not another bandwagon fan are we?? :-D


Wow, way to be a homer...yes, that's exactly it, i am another bandwagon fan. Or, just another person who can see past the b*tchin and whining of people who are always out to put something bad on the Pats. I think it's nice to hear a dissenting voice from time to time, from a non-Pats fan especially in a cafe seemingly full of Patriots-haters. That's pretty much my MO. In real life, in the cafe...iam just sick of hearing about how the pats are the big, evil meanies of the NFL. Even when they blowout other teams and play on a level not seen in this era, people cant just appreciate...they just pour on the haterade. Let's not forget that what they are doing has no ties with Spygate, and this season is completely clean. Yet so many people here still say "OMG they are cheaters" like they do something different every week to win a game. IT's like a no-win situation for Pats fans here, and as someone who isn't a Pats fan i feel like i gotta say something because this team gets so much flak in real life and in the cafe. I can't even begin to tell you how often my friends and i argue about the relevance of Spygate and such. And besides, what else do i have to talk about as a Niner fan? Don't accuse me of such childish crap like bandwagon jumping...i just appreciate a good team when i see it, and relish the fact that this generation might be witnessing the best offense the NFL has ever had and might witness only the 2nd team to go undefeated. If you can't appreciate that as a football fan...then iam pretty sure you didn't appreciate what ADP did yesterday either. :-°


Dude, chill out....did you not see the " :-D " afterwards? It was a joke. I have no hate for the Patriots, I even said it was a well played game.
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Re: If the Pats...

Postby ivesaidway2much » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:50 pm

jcde7ago wrote:
PMoneyTKE wrote:Moorehead dropped a pass in the endzone, I don't know how you CAN'T say that with Harrison in there it wouldn't have been a different game. I'm willing to bet that Harrison makes that catch 999 times out of a thousand. Either way it was a well played game and injuries are a part of football.

BTW whats a niners fan care about it anyway? Not another bandwagon fan are we?? :-D


Wow, way to be a homer...yes, that's exactly it, i am another bandwagon fan. Or, just another person who can see past the b*tchin and whining of people who are always out to put something bad on the Pats. I think it's nice to hear a dissenting voice from time to time, from a non-Pats fan especially in a cafe seemingly full of Patriots-haters. That's pretty much my MO. In real life, in the cafe...iam just sick of hearing about how the pats are the big, evil meanies of the NFL. Even when they blowout other teams and play on a level not seen in this era, people cant just appreciate...they just pour on the haterade. Let's not forget that what they are doing has no ties with Spygate, and this season is completely clean. Yet so many people here still say "OMG they are cheaters" like they do something different every week to win a game. IT's like a no-win situation for Pats fans here, and as someone who isn't a Pats fan i feel like i gotta say something because this team gets so much flak in real life and in the cafe. I can't even begin to tell you how often my friends and i argue about the relevance of Spygate and such. And besides, what else do i have to talk about as a Niner fan? Don't accuse me of such childish crap like bandwagon jumping...i just appreciate a good team when i see it, and relish the fact that this generation might be witnessing the best offense the NFL has ever had and might witness only the 2nd team to go undefeated. If you can't appreciate that as a football fan...then iam pretty sure you didn't appreciate what ADP did yesterday either. :-°
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Re: If the Pats...

Postby CC » Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:53 pm

skibrett15 wrote:
CC wrote:
FantasyMan13 wrote:Well, there's only a handful of players in the NFL that can actually change gameplans and must be planned around, and he is definitely still one of them when healthy.


I definitely disagree that Harrison is a scheme changer, he is a great WR, but it is highly debatable that he is even the best WR on his team.

I think it's a scheme changer, but only in that they also have reggie wayne. Covering them both is much harder than only covering one. So with harrison out there you are gonna leave one of them more open than the other, or if you sell out on them you have dallas clark and anthony gonzalez. You spread yourself just a little thinner than you do with him out of the game. More room for blitzing.


I agree that he has to be accounted for, but when I hear scheme changer there are literally 7 guys who I would award the designation:

Brady
ADP
Moss
Manning
Gates
Tomlinson
Burress
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Re: If the Pats...

Postby steelerfan513 » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:00 am

CC wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:
CC wrote:I definitely disagree that Harrison is a scheme changer, he is a great WR, but it is highly debatable that he is even the best WR on his team.

I think it's a scheme changer, but only in that they also have reggie wayne. Covering them both is much harder than only covering one. So with harrison out there you are gonna leave one of them more open than the other, or if you sell out on them you have dallas clark and anthony gonzalez. You spread yourself just a little thinner than you do with him out of the game. More room for blitzing.


I agree that he has to be accounted for, but when I hear scheme changer there are literally 7 guys who I would award the designation:

Brady
ADP
Moss
Manning
Gates
Tomlinson
Burress


No Steve Smith? Sure he's a hot-cold receiver, but when he's hot, he can singlehandedly beat another team.

I wouldn't call Marvin Harrison a significant scheme-changer. Yes, he is a great receiver, and yes, he makes a lot of plays, but there isn't any special way to plan for what he does. He's a very good receiver, and teams cover him like they would any other very good receiver. The way he changes schemes, as a poster mentioned earlier, is through his combo with Wayne.
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Re: If the Pats...

Postby Dr. Duran Duran » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:38 am

Marvin Harrison's one of the league's greatest wideouts. Anthony Gonzalez is a rookie and Aaron Moorehead is a role player. I'd say a defense would have to scheme differently for Marvin, but not on the same level as a team would have to scheme for someone like LT or Reggie Bush.

In any case, I thought the Patriots played a tremendous game. They made the big plays when they needed to and came out with just enough points to win the game. Winning close games is what great teams do and the Patriots are certainly that. Brady wasn't at his best, but he didn't need to be. That too is why the Patriots are the best team in football. When one player slips, the others pick him up.

I also felt that the Colts played a well fought game, but made too many mistakes - the missed FG, Gonzalez dropping a TD, Reggie Wayne dropping long bomb.

A bigger loss to the team than Harrison, I felt, was starting LT Tony Ugoh. Charlie Johnson played a lousy game, placing Manning in some tough spots, including the cause of two fumbles, one recovered by Johnson himself and one that ended the Colts' final drive. I'm not sure that Ugoh would have been a superstar, but he certainly would have been better than Johnson. Regardless, a team needs to play their best with or without their key players. The loss of Harrison, Ugoh and linebacker Freddie Keiaho isn't an excuse. However, observation of the Colts' play would suggest that they would have played a sharper game at full strength.

I have a feeling we'll be meeting again in the playoffs, but I'd like to give proper respect to the Steelers, who are really looking like a team that belongs in the conversation of potential AFC Super Bowl representatives. If anyone has flown under the radar it's the Steelers. On defense, they are savvy and battle tested. On offense, they are miles better than their past incarnations and deserve more respect than they're getting. Should be a fun postseason!
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Re: If the Pats...

Postby abrunn11 » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:38 am

jcde7ago wrote:
PMoneyTKE wrote:Moorehead dropped a pass in the endzone, I don't know how you CAN'T say that with Harrison in there it wouldn't have been a different game. I'm willing to bet that Harrison makes that catch 999 times out of a thousand. Either way it was a well played game and injuries are a part of football.

BTW whats a niners fan care about it anyway? Not another bandwagon fan are we?? :-D


Wow, way to be a homer...yes, that's exactly it, i am another bandwagon fan. Or, just another person who can see past the b*tchin and whining of people who are always out to put something bad on the Pats. I think it's nice to hear a dissenting voice from time to time, from a non-Pats fan especially in a cafe seemingly full of Patriots-haters. That's pretty much my MO. In real life, in the cafe...iam just sick of hearing about how the pats are the big, evil meanies of the NFL. Even when they blowout other teams and play on a level not seen in this era, people cant just appreciate...they just pour on the haterade. Let's not forget that what they are doing has no ties with Spygate, and this season is completely clean. Yet so many people here still say "OMG they are cheaters" like they do something different every week to win a game. IT's like a no-win situation for Pats fans here, and as someone who isn't a Pats fan i feel like i gotta say something because this team gets so much flak in real life and in the cafe. I can't even begin to tell you how often my friends and i argue about the relevance of Spygate and such. And besides, what else do i have to talk about as a Niner fan? Don't accuse me of such childish crap like bandwagon jumping...i just appreciate a good team when i see it, and relish the fact that this generation might be witnessing the best offense the NFL has ever had and might witness only the 2nd team to go undefeated. If you can't appreciate that as a football fan...then iam pretty sure you didn't appreciate what ADP did yesterday either. :-°


Are you seriously coming in here and trying to get people to get others to feel sorry for Pats fan like you do? Being a Vikings fan, I would take all the ribbing in the world in exchange for 3 Superbowls. If you are going to take up a cause, why not try Cleveland? I really do not think that the fans in Boston, with the Pats, Sox, Celts, B.C., really need someone to feel sorry for them.
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Re: If the Pats...

Postby CC » Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:47 pm

steelerfan513 wrote:
CC wrote:I agree that he has to be accounted for, but when I hear scheme changer there are literally 7 guys who I would award the designation:

Brady
ADP
Moss
Manning
Gates
Tomlinson
Burress


No Steve Smith? Sure he's a hot-cold receiver, but when he's hot, he can singlehandedly beat another team.

I wouldn't call Marvin Harrison a significant scheme-changer. Yes, he is a great receiver, and yes, he makes a lot of plays, but there isn't any special way to plan for what he does. He's a very good receiver, and teams cover him like they would any other very good receiver. The way he changes schemes, as a poster mentioned earlier, is through his combo with Wayne.


My bad, Steve Smith should definitely be in there.
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