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College RB's - Who will be the best in the pro's?

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Re: College RB's - Who will be the best in the pro's?

Postby Dhark » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:38 am

x2 on Juice....he is too often a liability more than a asset. I am afraid that they are not going to be able to polish him enough to be what they were looking for. I don't think he helps Mendenhall all that much if any.
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Re: College RB's - Who will be the best in the pro's?

Postby sappisgod » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:54 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:They don't use it on an every down basis you are right, but Jone is in the game when they do run it, but not always when they are not in it.


He benefits from it when it's run, but my point was he makes big plays when McFadden isn't even on the field. The same can't be said as much for Stewart and Mendenhall, obviously.

CC wrote:I think you are vastly overestimating Juice's worth as a threat on offense. Yes, he is fast, but he is also a terrible QB and there have been calls for McGee to take his job on and off all year (Zooker putting in a freshman QB at times when he is trying to develop a raw sophmore QB isn't exactly a vote of confidence).

Dixon granted is a big threat that has to be accounted for, but Juice is no more of a threat than the average college QB and is significantly worse than some.


Well duh, I wasn't saying he WAS Dennis Dixon, I'm saying he presents a similar problem to defenses that Dixon does, being a rushing QB. You've still got to account for that, and so teams can never really "key" in on Mendenhall. You've got such with any competent (not necessarily great) rushing QB who tends to fake like he has the ball after a hand-off. You've got to keep contain and stay with your responsibilities instead of being able to crash down and help with the back. Whether or not Juice is a great thrower or Dixon-like runner, it still results in whoever the back is getting helps from giving rushing lanes and taking away run supporters.

And I do remember McGee subbing in a lot when I watched Iowa upset them. I think he even threw the game winning TD that was called back because the WR was lined up over the TE.

EDIT: Just got around finally to looking at Juice's stats and he's got 638 yards, 5.0 average, and 5 TDs on the ground. Illinois as a whole had 860 rushing yards from their QBs (not taking into account sacks, thats a terrible way of doing things NCAA). That undoubtedly helps.
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Re: College RB's - Who will be the best in the pro's?

Postby CC » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:30 pm

You fail to understand my point. I am not arguing that Juice is not a good running QB, he most definitely is. I am arguing that his inability to be an effective QB throwing the ball allows defenses to load up against the run because the threat of Juice burning them with the pass is minimal. A guy like Mike Hart is helped by Henne and a guy like James Davis is helped by Spiller. There are only a few threats in the NCAA that have absolutely no one around them to relieve pressure, attributing Mendenhall's success primarily to Juice is just close-minded IMO.
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Re: College RB's - Who will be the best in the pro's?

Postby sappisgod » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:01 pm

CC wrote:You fail to understand my point. I am not arguing that Juice is not a good running QB, he most definitely is. I am arguing that his inability to be an effective QB throwing the ball allows defenses to load up against the run because the threat of Juice burning them with the pass is minimal. A guy like Mike Hart is helped by Henne and a guy like James Davis is helped by Spiller. There are only a few threats in the NCAA that have absolutely no one around them to relieve pressure, attributing Mendenhall's success primarily to Juice is just close-minded IMO.


Awww, come on, work with me man. I get your point, it's not that complicated. I made the point that Juice being a running QB HELPED Mendenhall, despite him being a poor passer. You claim that I overestimate Juice's threat on offense, when I don't. He is what he is, a poor passer that is STILL going to take some attention away from Mendenhall because he is a big threat to run.

I do think that you however don't get what I'm saying. I never attributed Mendenhall's success primarily to Juice. I honestly don't understand where you're getting that and you just throwing that in there baffles me. I even compared him to Jon Stewart's situation, whom I don't have enough good things to say about. Hart/Henne is completely different, especially considering how much Henne has struggled this season. As is Davis/Spiller, who may be able to wear down defenses, but has far from the same effect. When you have a QB who is capable of rushing, it changes responsibilities and distracts defenders no matter what. While I agree that everyone gets help, whether its a great passing game or a great line/blocking system. However, this all stems from you're pointing to the Wildcat offense and Juice's passing abilities making it easy for defenses to "key in" on Mendenhall. I thought the Wildcat offense wasn't AS CONSISTENTLY as beneficial as Mendenhall's (or Stewart's) situation. Not really close IMO. And that Juice's running skills made up for the fact that he's not a very good passer, so he still has an affect on the defense that Mendenhall sees a consistent benefit from.
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Re: College RB's - Who will be the best in the pro's?

Postby LS2throwed » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:35 pm

Avoiding the obvious choice...Jonathan Stewart is going to be a beast in the pros, I will make sure I jump on him before someone else does in the draft
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Re: College RB's - Who will be the best in the pro's?

Postby CC » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:32 pm

sappisgod wrote:
CC wrote:You fail to understand my point. I am not arguing that Juice is not a good running QB, he most definitely is. I am arguing that his inability to be an effective QB throwing the ball allows defenses to load up against the run because the threat of Juice burning them with the pass is minimal. A guy like Mike Hart is helped by Henne and a guy like James Davis is helped by Spiller. There are only a few threats in the NCAA that have absolutely no one around them to relieve pressure, attributing Mendenhall's success primarily to Juice is just close-minded IMO.


Awww, come on, work with me man. I get your point, it's not that complicated. I made the point that Juice being a running QB HELPED Mendenhall, despite him being a poor passer. You claim that I overestimate Juice's threat on offense, when I don't. He is what he is, a poor passer that is STILL going to take some attention away from Mendenhall because he is a big threat to run.

I do think that you however don't get what I'm saying. I never attributed Mendenhall's success primarily to Juice. I honestly don't understand where you're getting that and you just throwing that in there baffles me. I even compared him to Jon Stewart's situation, whom I don't have enough good things to say about. Hart/Henne is completely different, especially considering how much Henne has struggled this season. As is Davis/Spiller, who may be able to wear down defenses, but has far from the same effect. When you have a QB who is capable of rushing, it changes responsibilities and distracts defenders no matter what. While I agree that everyone gets help, whether its a great passing game or a great line/blocking system. However, this all stems from you're pointing to the Wildcat offense and Juice's passing abilities making it easy for defenses to "key in" on Mendenhall. I thought the Wildcat offense wasn't AS CONSISTENTLY as beneficial as Mendenhall's (or Stewart's) situation. Not really close IMO. And that Juice's running skills made up for the fact that he's not a very good passer, so he still has an affect on the defense that Mendenhall sees a consistent benefit from.


Sorry man, now I understand why you were so confused. I was arguing with you on a post that someone else made.
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Re: College RB's - Who will be the best in the pro's?

Postby The Lung » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:43 pm

Has no one mentioned Central Florida stud RB Kevin Smith in this thread?
(~);}

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(~);}
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Re: College RB's - Who will be the best in the pro's?

Postby deerayfan072 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:44 pm

The Lung wrote:Has no one mentioned Central Florida stud RB Kevin Smith in this thread?


No, but I did in another one ;-) :-b
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