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Why H2H sucks

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Re: Why H2H sucks

Postby beanoX3 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:32 pm

matmat wrote:maybe i sound like a broken record... why can't head to head be rotisserie scoring?

What stat categories can anyone create for roto scoring in football? Yards, points, and .....

Baseball and basketball can use roto scoring because they've got 10+ stats they can use for all the the players. All their players also get an equal shot at putting up numbers in all those stats too. Not so in football, so roto doesn't work so well.
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Re: Why H2H sucks

Postby WyldStallyn » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:51 pm

same thing happened to me last year. i had more points than everyone but the team in 1st place, but i only had 4 wins. luckily i have brady this year and so far am undefeated
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Re: Why H2H sucks

Postby The Lung » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:45 pm

What do you guys think of the Head-to-Head Victory Point Scoring System(TM) system used in Antsports and MyFantasyLeague.com leagues?

For those not familiar with the concept, here it is:

The idea behind the H2H Victory Point Leagues is simple:
  • Total Point Leagues are not fun. After about half the season, most teams don't have a chance and are no longer interested.
  • Head-to-Head matchups are exciting, but sometimes are unfair. Each year, you see several leagues where a team with very high total points is struggling to make the playoffs. You would think that a team with high total points should be a lock for the playoffs, but it's not always true. Looking at the Head-to-Head matchups in typical H2H leagues, you can see the problem. The high scoring team lost two (or more) games during the regular season when they scored the second highest points. That's the "luck" factor that is reduced with this victory points league style.

Here's how these problems are fixed:
  • The League standings are kept with league points instead of wins and losses.
  • Each week you play head-to-head like normal leagues. A win awards your team with 2 League
    Points, a Tie 1 point, and a loss no points. (Actually, with fractional scoring, there are no ties. You either get 2 points for a win, or 0 for a loss.)
  • Each week, the teams are ordered by total fantasy points scored during that week. League points are also awarded for having high scores.

12-team league Victory Point assignment :

High Score - 2 League Points
2nd - 2 League Points
3rd - 2 League Points
4th - 2 League Points
5th - 1 League Point
6th - 1 League Point
7th - 1 League Point
8th - 1 League Point
9th - 0 League Points
10th - 0 League Points
11th - 0 League Points
12th - 0 League Points

If you get the second highest score and lose, you still get 2 league points.

Now, you can still trash talk and take on your archrival in Head-to-Head play. If you win, great. If you lose and scored high, you still get points. That nice high score is no longer wasted. It counts!

I believe that this Head-to-Head Victory Point scoring system provides the most balanced, competitive, and FAIR leagues available anywhere on the Internet.


I seem to be having a problem with one owner in a new dynasty league about this system. (To be fair, the system was not communicated very well by me when the league was being created) Now that the system is in place, he seems to be stuck in the "head-to-head matchups are the end all, be all of fantasy football" mindset. He seems to value the head-to-head wins ABOVE AND BEYOND anything else. He thinks that because of the vagaries of the schedule, that a team who just manages to squeak by and win matchups 64.2-62.2 every week is arguably a better team than one who scores 130 points each week and still loses. Does the former team deserve a spot in the playoffs? Should the latter team not make the playoffs because they were unlucky enough to be the second or third highest scoring team each week? At the end of the year, should the team with several hundred less points but with a better record prevail? This is not the NFL. This is fantasy football, where points scored are a very valuable measure of the fantasy strength of a team.

The system is designed to make sure that THE BEST teams make the playoffs. Not the team that finishes 8th or 9th in total points scored but got lucky because the vagaries of the randomly chosen schedule, their opponents who may have had players on bye week, etc. which gave them flukey wins.

From a spirit of competition, this makes all the sense in the world to me. This system is used by HUNDREDS of leagues on Antsports (where it originated) and on Myfantasyleague.com. It reduces the "luck" factor of head-to-head leagues and ensures that the best teams make the playoffs, not the lucky ones. If anything, this brings the integrity of the league ABOVE AND BEYOND that of regular head-to-head matchup leagues, where we might have a flukey playoff participant or even league winner every year.

What's really funny about this whole situation is that if you understand and think about how the system works, in the end, you'll see that the teams which won the most matchups (in other words, the BEST teams) are the ones in the playoffs anyway - because they earn 3 or 4 victory points every week. The chances that one team with the 8th or 9th highest points total would have made the playoffs because it won four or five "squeakers" e.g. low scoring affairs during the year are very very small. But the victory points system ensures that this does not occur.
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Re: Why H2H sucks

Postby Azrael » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:59 pm

I've played H2H and total points and I think H2H is better simply because it keeps teams interested longer. If you have 1 or 2 teams just dominating the points all year, very quickly people are going to lose interest. But if you have 3 or 4 teams fighting for those playoff spots knowing that ultimately they have a chance to win in the end it makes for a better league. Yes, many times the "best" team doesn't win but so is the case in real life sports as well.
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Re: Why H2H sucks

Postby Dan Lambskin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:12 pm

The Lung wrote:What do you guys think of the Head-to-Head Victory Point Scoring System(TM) system used in Antsports and MyFantasyLeague.com leagues?

For those not familiar with the concept, here it is:

The idea behind the H2H Victory Point Leagues is simple:
  • Total Point Leagues are not fun. After about half the season, most teams don't have a chance and are no longer interested.
  • Head-to-Head matchups are exciting, but sometimes are unfair. Each year, you see several leagues where a team with very high total points is struggling to make the playoffs. You would think that a team with high total points should be a lock for the playoffs, but it's not always true. Looking at the Head-to-Head matchups in typical H2H leagues, you can see the problem. The high scoring team lost two (or more) games during the regular season when they scored the second highest points. That's the "luck" factor that is reduced with this victory points league style.

Here's how these problems are fixed:
  • The League standings are kept with league points instead of wins and losses.
  • Each week you play head-to-head like normal leagues. A win awards your team with 2 League
    Points, a Tie 1 point, and a loss no points. (Actually, with fractional scoring, there are no ties. You either get 2 points for a win, or 0 for a loss.)
  • Each week, the teams are ordered by total fantasy points scored during that week. League points are also awarded for having high scores.

12-team league Victory Point assignment :

High Score - 2 League Points
2nd - 2 League Points
3rd - 2 League Points
4th - 2 League Points
5th - 1 League Point
6th - 1 League Point
7th - 1 League Point
8th - 1 League Point
9th - 0 League Points
10th - 0 League Points
11th - 0 League Points
12th - 0 League Points

If you get the second highest score and lose, you still get 2 league points.

Now, you can still trash talk and take on your archrival in Head-to-Head play. If you win, great. If you lose and scored high, you still get points. That nice high score is no longer wasted. It counts!

I believe that this Head-to-Head Victory Point scoring system provides the most balanced, competitive, and FAIR leagues available anywhere on the Internet.


I seem to be having a problem with one owner in a new dynasty league about this system. (To be fair, the system was not communicated very well by me when the league was being created) Now that the system is in place, he seems to be stuck in the "head-to-head matchups are the end all, be all of fantasy football" mindset. He seems to value the head-to-head wins ABOVE AND BEYOND anything else. He thinks that because of the vagaries of the schedule, that a team who just manages to squeak by and win matchups 64.2-62.2 every week is arguably a better team than one who scores 130 points each week and still loses. Does the former team deserve a spot in the playoffs? Should the latter team not make the playoffs because they were unlucky enough to be the second or third highest scoring team each week? At the end of the year, should the team with several hundred less points but with a better record prevail? This is not the NFL. This is fantasy football, where points scored are a very valuable measure of the fantasy strength of a team.

The system is designed to make sure that THE BEST teams make the playoffs. Not the team that finishes 8th or 9th in total points scored but got lucky because the vagaries of the randomly chosen schedule, their opponents who may have had players on bye week, etc. which gave them flukey wins.

From a spirit of competition, this makes all the sense in the world to me. This system is used by HUNDREDS of leagues on Antsports (where it originated) and on Myfantasyleague.com. It reduces the "luck" factor of head-to-head leagues and ensures that the best teams make the playoffs, not the lucky ones. If anything, this brings the integrity of the league ABOVE AND BEYOND that of regular head-to-head matchup leagues, where we might have a flukey playoff participant or even league winner every year.

What's really funny about this whole situation is that if you understand and think about how the system works, in the end, you'll see that the teams which won the most matchups (in other words, the BEST teams) are the ones in the playoffs anyway - because they earn 3 or 4 victory points every week. The chances that one team with the 8th or 9th highest points total would have made the playoffs because it won four or five "squeakers" e.g. low scoring affairs during the year are very very small. But the victory points system ensures that this does not occur.


i play in one league that uses this system...i dont have a problem with it, but i still prefer the old Wins and Losses style. yeah, sometimes good teams miss the playoffs, but that's part of the fun (unless you are said team)
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Re: Why H2H sucks

Postby Bobbleheadrusty » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:27 pm

Where do these ancient post get brought up from?

H2H is perfect for football. Not only does it perfectly fit a 12 team/3 division schedule in 14 weeks but it also creates a real competition each week. Baseball is like a marathon, football is like a boxing match, with a series of short battles.
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Re: Why H2H sucks

Postby Mr. Moose » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:43 pm

The Lung wrote:What do you guys think of the Head-to-Head Victory Point Scoring System(TM) system used in Antsports and MyFantasyLeague.com leagues?

For those not familiar with the concept, here it is:

The idea behind the H2H Victory Point Leagues is simple:
  • Total Point Leagues are not fun. After about half the season, most teams don't have a chance and are no longer interested.
  • Head-to-Head matchups are exciting, but sometimes are unfair. Each year, you see several leagues where a team with very high total points is struggling to make the playoffs. You would think that a team with high total points should be a lock for the playoffs, but it's not always true. Looking at the Head-to-Head matchups in typical H2H leagues, you can see the problem. The high scoring team lost two (or more) games during the regular season when they scored the second highest points. That's the "luck" factor that is reduced with this victory points league style.

Here's how these problems are fixed:
  • The League standings are kept with league points instead of wins and losses.
  • Each week you play head-to-head like normal leagues. A win awards your team with 2 League
    Points, a Tie 1 point, and a loss no points. (Actually, with fractional scoring, there are no ties. You either get 2 points for a win, or 0 for a loss.)
  • Each week, the teams are ordered by total fantasy points scored during that week. League points are also awarded for having high scores.

12-team league Victory Point assignment :

High Score - 2 League Points
2nd - 2 League Points
3rd - 2 League Points
4th - 2 League Points
5th - 1 League Point
6th - 1 League Point
7th - 1 League Point
8th - 1 League Point
9th - 0 League Points
10th - 0 League Points
11th - 0 League Points
12th - 0 League Points

If you get the second highest score and lose, you still get 2 league points.

Now, you can still trash talk and take on your archrival in Head-to-Head play. If you win, great. If you lose and scored high, you still get points. That nice high score is no longer wasted. It counts!

I believe that this Head-to-Head Victory Point scoring system provides the most balanced, competitive, and FAIR leagues available anywhere on the Internet.


I seem to be having a problem with one owner in a new dynasty league about this system. (To be fair, the system was not communicated very well by me when the league was being created) Now that the system is in place, he seems to be stuck in the "head-to-head matchups are the end all, be all of fantasy football" mindset. He seems to value the head-to-head wins ABOVE AND BEYOND anything else. He thinks that because of the vagaries of the schedule, that a team who just manages to squeak by and win matchups 64.2-62.2 every week is arguably a better team than one who scores 130 points each week and still loses. Does the former team deserve a spot in the playoffs? Should the latter team not make the playoffs because they were unlucky enough to be the second or third highest scoring team each week? At the end of the year, should the team with several hundred less points but with a better record prevail? This is not the NFL. This is fantasy football, where points scored are a very valuable measure of the fantasy strength of a team.

The system is designed to make sure that THE BEST teams make the playoffs. Not the team that finishes 8th or 9th in total points scored but got lucky because the vagaries of the randomly chosen schedule, their opponents who may have had players on bye week, etc. which gave them flukey wins.

From a spirit of competition, this makes all the sense in the world to me. This system is used by HUNDREDS of leagues on Antsports (where it originated) and on Myfantasyleague.com. It reduces the "luck" factor of head-to-head leagues and ensures that the best teams make the playoffs, not the lucky ones. If anything, this brings the integrity of the league ABOVE AND BEYOND that of regular head-to-head matchup leagues, where we might have a flukey playoff participant or even league winner every year.

What's really funny about this whole situation is that if you understand and think about how the system works, in the end, you'll see that the teams which won the most matchups (in other words, the BEST teams) are the ones in the playoffs anyway - because they earn 3 or 4 victory points every week. The chances that one team with the 8th or 9th highest points total would have made the playoffs because it won four or five "squeakers" e.g. low scoring affairs during the year are very very small. But the victory points system ensures that this does not occur.


This system sounds great to me. Just out of curiosity, do you use the same system in the playoffs or is it simply H2H? I don't see how you could use it for the playoffs with a bracket-style system.
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Re: Why H2H sucks

Postby The Lung » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:59 pm

Mr. Moose wrote:This system sounds great to me. Just out of curiosity, do you use the same system in the playoffs or is it simply H2H? I don't see how you could use it for the playoffs with a bracket-style system.


Nope, only used for the regular season standings to determine who makes the playoffs and their seeds. In the playoffs, it's a normal NFL-playoff style bracket. (Most points scored in your head-to-head matchup advances)
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Re: Why H2H sucks

Postby JasonSeahorn » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:42 pm

The Victory Points system sounds good to me, I'd like to try it next year....Lung are you planning on making a league with it next year? And is it free to use those sites?
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Re: Why H2H sucks

Postby shagworth » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:47 pm

1. D-ROC 4-1-0 748.36 W-4 4 16
2. SHOWTIME 4-1-0 736.70 L-1 5 4
3. Straight Cash Homey 4-1-0 694.52 W-3 10 29
4. still... WRECKING 3-2-0 776.42 L-2 9 14
5. Texas Horny Toads 3-2-0 762.68 W-1 1 -
6. YEAH DUDE 3-2-0 755.76 W-1 2 9
7. Malito's Warriors 2-3-0 754.42 L-1 8 9
8. In Your Face 1-4-0 647.54 W-1 7 7
9. Stealth Assassins 1-4-0 606.98 L-1 6 -
10. Invincible Mrkt Sol 0-5-0 559.28 L-5 3 1

You want to talk about wacky scores, I should be in 7th place right now looking at scores. I'm 4-1 in 3rd. The other teams have huge fluctuations in scoring...but my score is pretty consistent each week.
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