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What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

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Re: What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

Postby Archduke Chocula » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:41 pm

Timbathia wrote:Best case scenario is that they get the number 1 pick and use it on a player that busts so bad that they make Ryan Leaf like a hall-of-famer.

And no, I am not a Pats hater - I just honestly think that most of their fans dont know anything about football or sportsmanship.

Oh, and I hate the Red Sox too, mainly cause just like the Yankees they have no idea about talent identification or development. Just big checkbooks.

Boston is nice, but the accents on the locals are so annoying.


The Red Sox have signed Hanley Ramirez as an International FA and drafted Dustin Pedroia, both league ROYs. Theo claimed Bronson Arroyo off waivers, drafted Papelbon and Lester, signed Mark Bellhorn and Pokey Reese, traded Nomar for two guys who weren't playing well at the time (Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz), claimed Mike Myers off waivers, evaluated that the Red Sox were better off without Cabrera and Pedro and Lowe and used compensation picks on Ellsbury and Buchholz, signed Beckett to a below market extension when he was slumping in 2006, and signed Okajima. Those were all victories for the talent evaluation staff of the Red Sox. The Pats do a great job, too (when they drafted Logan Mankins in 2005, everyone said, "Who?" and he's been a starter on a terrific O-Line from day one. Asante Samuel was a great pick in the 4th round).

Goodell only even took away the first rounder because he had to show he was the new tough sheriff on the block and he took the second one because he knew it will be a 30+ overall pick. Goodell was mad because Belichick seemed to ignore him. It wasn't about the videotaping-- the videotaping was legal, except for the exact placement of the camera.
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Re: What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

Postby steelerfan513 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:56 pm

eaglesrule wrote:It is "their own." Once it switched hands, it became the Pats. This was an unprecedented offense. You can argue specifics, but the default problem is that a team who was caught cheating could also have a top five pick, and this makes sense how?


The Patriots made a specific transaction to get that pick back in April. Taking that pick away would be nullifying half of a trade. The NFL can't punish the Patriots for correctly predicting that the 49ers would suck this year by taking away a pick that they fairly traded for. They CAN punish them by taking away a draft pick they have always owned and that has never been through any transactions.

Basically you're condoning the nullification of half of a trade just for the fairness of the league. Should teams be punished for being too good or having good foresight to predict that another team will be bad?
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Re: What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

Postby steelerfan513 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:02 pm

Archduke Chocula wrote:Goodell only even took away the first rounder because he had to show he was the new tough sheriff on the block and he took the second one because he knew it will be a 30+ overall pick. Goodell was mad because Belichick seemed to ignore him. It wasn't about the videotaping-- the videotaping was legal, except for the exact placement of the camera.


That's like defending a guy who shot someone by saying "If it weren't for the fact that he shot somebody, his actions wouldn't have been illegal." Obviously the Patriots' situation doesn't compare in severity to murder, but the analogy still works.

I do feel like the entire scandal is being blown out of proportion; the Patriots have no reason to cheat at this point, and just because they cheated in that game doesn't mean they cheated enough in the past to tarnish their entire dynasty. Still, trying to justify their actions as anything but illegal is futile. They did something illegal, but they've paid the price, and I wish we could move on.
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Re: What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

Postby Archduke Chocula » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:06 pm

steelerfan513 wrote:
Archduke Chocula wrote:Goodell only even took away the first rounder because he had to show he was the new tough sheriff on the block and he took the second one because he knew it will be a 30+ overall pick. Goodell was mad because Belichick seemed to ignore him. It wasn't about the videotaping-- the videotaping was legal, except for the exact placement of the camera.


That's like defending a guy who shot someone by saying "If it weren't for the fact that he shot somebody, his actions would have been illegal." Obviously the Patriots' situation doesn't compare in severity to murder, but the analogy still works.

I do feel like the entire scandal is being blown out of proportion; the Patriots have no reason to cheat at this point, and just because they cheated in that game doesn't mean they cheated enough in the past to tarnish their entire dynasty. Still, trying to justify their actions as anything but illegal is futile. They did something illegal, but they've paid the price, and I wish we could move on.


Allowing some videotaping of signals and videotaping in a way slightly different from the allowable methods is different from not allowing any videotaping of signals and then videotaping. The Pats did the former, not the latter. It is a meaningful difference. The latter is more flagrant.

The Pats weren't cheating in that game. They weren't using that video for that game. It was for future reference, just like the "legal" videotaping all the NFL team do.
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Re: What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

Postby steelerfan513 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:17 pm

Archduke Chocula wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:
Archduke Chocula wrote:Goodell only even took away the first rounder because he had to show he was the new tough sheriff on the block and he took the second one because he knew it will be a 30+ overall pick. Goodell was mad because Belichick seemed to ignore him. It wasn't about the videotaping-- the videotaping was legal, except for the exact placement of the camera.


That's like defending a guy who shot someone by saying "If it weren't for the fact that he shot somebody, his actions would have been illegal." Obviously the Patriots' situation doesn't compare in severity to murder, but the analogy still works.

I do feel like the entire scandal is being blown out of proportion; the Patriots have no reason to cheat at this point, and just because they cheated in that game doesn't mean they cheated enough in the past to tarnish their entire dynasty. Still, trying to justify their actions as anything but illegal is futile. They did something illegal, but they've paid the price, and I wish we could move on.


Allowing some videotaping of signals and videotaping in a way slightly different from the allowable methods is different from not allowing any videotaping of signals and then videotaping. The Pats did the former, not the latter. It is a meaningful difference. The latter is more flagrant.

The Pats weren't cheating in that game. They weren't using that video for that game. It was for future reference, just like the "legal" videotaping all the NFL team do.


So the NFL decided to assess $750,000 in fines and take away a first round pick because they felt like it? The Goodell "sheriff" argument isn't convincing either; Goodell has suspended one player for an entire year (and likely will do the same for Travis Henry) and has suspended four other players/coaches for a combined 25 games (Tank Johnson, Chris Henry, Marcus Stroud, Wade Wilson).

The fact is that what they did was illegal. I understand the arguments that it wasn't a huge deal, and I partially agree that this entire ordeal was overblown, but that doesn't change the fact that they broke NFL rules.
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Re: What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

Postby deerayfan072 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:25 pm

Back on track....

McFadden should not be available to them. He should be the first player taken IMO
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Re: What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

Postby steelerfan513 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:31 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:Back on track....

McFadden should not be available to them. He should be the first player taken IMO


Sorry bout the hijacking...

That definitely depends on which team gets the first pick. If Miami, St. Louis, or San Fran gets it, chances are they won't take McFadden.
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Re: What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

Postby pappymojo » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:54 pm

on topic... with the dolphins and the jets both having awful years and both being in the Patriots division, the Pats might keep the pick, looking long term to stay even with those teams in terms of building through young talented players. I don't think it's that much of a lock that the Patriots trade out of the top five just because they have traded down in the past.
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Re: What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

Postby JasonSeahorn » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:58 pm

pappymojo wrote:on topic... with the dolphins and the jets both having awful years and both being in the Patriots division, the Pats might keep the pick, looking long term to stay even with those teams in terms of building through young talented players. I don't think it's that much of a lock that the Patriots trade out of the top five just because they have traded down in the past.


well they would be trading down to stockpile a bunch of picks so they could build depth and get multiple prospects at a lot of different positions.
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Re: What will the Pats do with their top 5 pick?

Postby Trot Nixon » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:05 am

APAP wrote:
Timbathia wrote:Best case scenario is that they get the number 1 pick and use it on a player that busts so bad that they make Ryan Leaf like a hall-of-famer.

And no, I am not a Pats hater - I just honestly think that most of their fans dont know anything about football or sportsmanship.

Oh, and I hate the Red Sox too, mainly cause just like the Yankees they have no idea about talent identification or development. Just big checkbooks.

Boston is nice, but the accents on the locals are so annoying.


If you really wanna get me stahted on this......That is an ignorant statement saying that the Sox have no idea about talent identification or development. Smaht statement man really....I'll just tell you:

Clay Buccholz
Jon Lestah
Manny Delcahmen
Jon Papelbon
Kevin Youkilis
Dustin Pedroia
Beckett and Lowell they used theah top prospect and one of the GAMEs top prospects to land, so don't tell me they don't know how to develop a fahm system.

And yes you are a Pats hater, you hate the fans and I'm sure you hate the team too, just get ovah it man. And you said I hate the sawx to so that does imply that you hate both.

And bringin up accents is just stupid and has nothing to do with anything, way to stay on topic on this thread.
Pretty much right on target...(except the spelling of Buchholz ;-D ) Hate all you want, Boston is the epicenter of sports right now
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