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Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

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Re: Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

Postby Lofunzo » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:32 pm

thedude wrote:So if it is just the system, then why does almost every Wide Out that plays with Brady have a career year?


I got blasted last season arguing Brady over Manning so I am definitely not anti-Brady. That said, you can't go from possibly better than Manning to best ever. Here is how I see it. He is well on his way to being involved in the discussion and, when the smoke clears and his career ends, he could very well be on top. As for this season, all of the stars have been aligned for them. They have the great QB. He has perfect WR for that system. He has a motivated Moss who will outjump any DB for the ball. He has a solid underneath WR in Welker and he has Stallworth. Just hit him in stride and you have 6 points. He has a system that uses the pass to set up the run and he has a coach that won't let up on the score. All of those add up to a magical season for him and the Pats.

Again, you can't go from possibly best current QB to best ever in less than a season. Let him do this or something similar for another season or 2 and we can talk.
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Re: Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

Postby Pete123444 » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:34 pm

Sammy Baugh was the best QB ever. He was a combination Vick-Marino. If he played now as the NE QB, defenses would have to account for him running. He also led the league in interceptions as a DB. Yeah, football players used to play both sides for the entire game. I'd like to see Brady do that and see what stats he'd put up. Oh and btw, he was the greatest punter too!

No way you can compare stats or anything players do from different eras. Sammy Baugh changed football when he played. I think football may be changing now too. But not from Brady alone. From all these rule changes over the past 20 years that have helped offenses and hindered defenses so that football can be what it is today, high scoring, what the fans seem to want.

Arguements like these always pop up among fans. They're fun. Unfortunately, only the most recent players seem to get serious discussion in these "votes". Maybe TV will change that.....
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Re: Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

Postby Lofunzo » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:46 pm

Pete123444 wrote:Arguements like these always pop up among fans. They're fun. Unfortunately, only the most recent players seem to get serious discussion in these "votes". Maybe TV will change that.....


Very true. We tend to lean towards what we see and what we remember and it is obviously easier to remember what Brady has done this season. Take Montana in 1984, for example. I bet that a lot of people here weren't even born in 1984. Many of their memories were from late SF/KC for them.
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Re: Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

Postby russellzisky » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:03 pm

True, but by the same token players' legacies can be hyped up so much after they retire that people consider them to be 100% flawless. It seems like Joe Montana gets better and better every year the further removed he is from his retirement.

Montana passed for more than 26 TD's only 3 times in his whole career, and he passed fewer than 20 a year a few times. This will be Brady's third season with more than 26 TD passes and he still has a ways to go before he retires. Seems to me that Joe Montana was also the product of a great system, but people don't seem to count that against him like they count it against Brady.

I know some of you hate statistics, but when two QB's are on relatively the same level, they've gotta be worth something.
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Re: Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

Postby zevon » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:11 am

Lofunzo wrote:
Pete123444 wrote:Arguements like these always pop up among fans. They're fun. Unfortunately, only the most recent players seem to get serious discussion in these "votes". Maybe TV will change that.....


Very true. We tend to lean towards what we see and what we remember and it is obviously easier to remember what Brady has done this season. Take Montana in 1984, for example. I bet that a lot of people here weren't even born in 1984. Many of their memories were from late SF/KC for them.


You certainly don't hear much about Tarkenton, although when he retired he owned most of the all time passing records. Great scrambler too. Had the Vikes won any of their 3 Super Bowl appearances I think he'd be a lot more highly regarded. I loved watching him play.

Speaking of winners, how about Otto Graham? 105-17-4 with the Browns, the first 4 years in the AAFC. His team won the championship all 4 years, then became part of the NFL. In all, he led the Browns to 10 championship games in the 10 seasons he played for them, winning 7.
This was all pre Super Bowl, of course, and slightly pre my birth, so I never saw him play live. He didn't have the gaudy numbers that many modern era QB's put up, but no QB has ever enjoyed more team success.
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Re: Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

Postby latsprewell20002000 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:18 pm

No matter what Brady deserves to be mentioned with the best. Marino did what he did without ever having a pro bowl WR on his team. If Brady plays another 6-7 years and wins a couple more superbowls I think people will give him the best ever title. I mean how could you not. Hes on pace to shatter Mannings record which just got set lol. I bet Peyton thought that would stand for 20 years...
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Re: Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

Postby Lofunzo » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:05 pm

latsprewell20002000 wrote:No matter what Brady deserves to be mentioned with the best. Marino did what he did without ever having a pro bowl WR on his team. If Brady plays another 6-7 years and wins a couple more superbowls I think people will give him the best ever title. I mean how could you not. Hes on pace to shatter Mannings record which just got set lol. I bet Peyton thought that would stand for 20 years...


Mark Clayton made the Pro Bowl in 1984, 1985, 1986, 1988 and 1991. Mark Duper made the Pro Bowl in 1983, 1984 and 1986. I am not trying to make a pro-Brady argument here. I am just correcting your statement.
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Re: Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

Postby thedude » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:43 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
thedude wrote:So if it is just the system, then why does almost every Wide Out that plays with Brady have a career year?


I got blasted last season arguing Brady over Manning so I am definitely not anti-Brady. That said, you can't go from possibly better than Manning to best ever. Here is how I see it. He is well on his way to being involved in the discussion and, when the smoke clears and his career ends, he could very well be on top. As for this season, all of the stars have been aligned for them. They have the great QB. He has perfect WR for that system. He has a motivated Moss who will outjump any DB for the ball. He has a solid underneath WR in Welker and he has Stallworth. Just hit him in stride and you have 6 points. He has a system that uses the pass to set up the run and he has a coach that won't let up on the score. All of those add up to a magical season for him and the Pats.

Again, you can't go from possibly best current QB to best ever in less than a season. Let him do this or something similar for another season or 2 and we can talk.


I cannot say that Brady is the without a doubt the GOAT, but after a few more years he will be one more commonly argued for QBs.
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Re: Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

Postby RyanK » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:07 pm

since brady took over for bledsoe he has been perfect for the patriots system, he was consistent, threw an accurate ball with some zip, had good vision and always seemed calm in the pocket.

i think when he first took over, he wouldnt not have done as well on another team, but brady really has emerged as a leader and his overall game has gotten better (most notabley arm strength, imo).

Id say brady cant be called best all time, after 5-8 more strong season and a few more like this... potentially
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Re: Tom Brady... Undisputed Best QB All-Time

Postby ttwarrior1 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:35 am

lmao at the best, if he was on the dolphins he would get cut and manning wouldn't, nor many other qb's

if brady was on the colts last year they would of not won the superbowl. You also cannot compare the receivers manning has now to what brady had the last couple years. Brady also has the best offensive line , but more depth, cheating and playing the jets, buffalo and miami twice also helps
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