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Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

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Re: Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

Postby PMoneyTKE » Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:42 pm

Madison wrote:
josebach wrote:There's not one person in this thread that hasnt done something at one point in their lives that wouldn't be considered criminal. A lot of people might consider drunk driving to be worse than stealing a tv. Do you think drunk drivers should be killed too or is it only crimes that YOU feel should be punishable by death?

Not just to Madison:
Oh, and we get it. If someone breaks into your house you're going to kill them. Why does everybody who owns a gun feel the need to make this declaration over and over again. I grew up shooting pistols competitively and also am a gun owner. And yes, it someone were to break into my house and I thought my family was in danger, I'd shoot them. It doesn't mean I'm going to keep saying it over and over and over. Continually saying this makes it sound like either 1) you want someone to break in so you can shoot them, or 2) you're scared. It just doesn't sound good. This type of machismo is why I got out of shooting.


I just use common sense with whatever the crime is. For drunk driving, the possible logical consequences are: Loss of license, fine, jail time, wrecked car, death, death of others. I wouldn't expect someone to shoot a drunk driver, and that would actually surprise me if it happened.


How does someone breaking into an empty house deserve to be shot and not someone who is driving drunk and risking the lives of hundreds of people? That is the entire problem with you're "they're criminals so they deserve to be shot" theory. Nobody has the right to decide who lives or who dies, criminals or not. Thats why it should be left up to the police to arrest these criminals, take them to jail and give them a trial.

Madison wrote:As to saying I'd kill the crooks too, I only said it once in this thread, and that was simply out of frustration at how soft on crime everyone's being and all the love and protection being extended to the criminals. :-/ :-P It also seems some people flat can't be pleased. They complain when people don't get involved in protecting others and their community, yet now this guy is wrong for doing exactly that. Doesn't make a lot of sense really.


So just because we aren't calling for blood and for heads to roll we are being soft on crime and extending love and protection? Gimme a break...
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Re: Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

Postby Madison » Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:19 pm

PMoneyTKE wrote:How does someone breaking into an empty house deserve to be shot and not someone who is driving drunk and risking the lives of hundreds of people? That is the entire problem with you're "they're criminals so they deserve to be shot" theory. Nobody has the right to decide who lives or who dies, criminals or not. Thats why it should be left up to the police to arrest these criminals, take them to jail and give them a trial.


Where did I say "deserve"? I said it was a logical possible consequence of their actions if they break into a home. It's not an unusual thing at all and we hear about burglars getting shot and killed all the time. Anyone ever hear of someone shooting a drunk driver? I haven't. So that would be unusual, and not a typical logical possible consequence of his actions. I didn't say which crime was worse, or say one or both deserved to be shot, I simply used common sense as to what logical possible consequences are out there for each crime.

PMoneyTKE wrote:So just because we aren't calling for blood and for heads to roll we are being soft on crime and extending love and protection? Gimme a break...


Again, where did I say that? Read what I write, not what you twist it to. ;-) When people care this much and think it's this wrong that two criminals got shot and killed while breaking the law, I consider that a bit absurd. They are criminals for crying out loud so who cares? Defending them at all in any way is nuts. As you said "Gimme a break...".
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Re: Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

Postby PMoneyTKE » Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:28 pm

Madison wrote:
PMoneyTKE wrote:How does someone breaking into an empty house deserve to be shot and not someone who is driving drunk and risking the lives of hundreds of people? That is the entire problem with you're "they're criminals so they deserve to be shot" theory. Nobody has the right to decide who lives or who dies, criminals or not. Thats why it should be left up to the police to arrest these criminals, take them to jail and give them a trial.


Where did I say "deserve"? I said it was a logical possible consequence of their actions if they break into a home. It's not an unusual thing at all and we hear about burglars getting shot and killed all the time. Anyone ever hear of someone shooting a drunk driver? I haven't. So that would be unusual, and not a typical logical possible consequence of his actions. I didn't say which crime was worse, or say one or both deserved to be shot, I simply used common sense as to what logical possible consequences are out there for each crime.

PMoneyTKE wrote:So just because we aren't calling for blood and for heads to roll we are being soft on crime and extending love and protection? Gimme a break...


Again, where did I say that? Read what I write, not what you twist it to. ;-) When people care this much and think it's this wrong that two criminals got shot and killed while breaking the law, I consider that a bit absurd. They are criminals for crying out loud so who cares? Defending them at all in any way is nuts. As you said "Gimme a break...".


Didn't mean to twist you're words, I guess I'm just taking them the wrong way. Sorry about that. In any case, I despise anyone who breaks the law but I despise more the people who take human life so lightly. Sure these people were criminals and most likely the scum of the earth, but I just don't understand how someone could decide that they were high and mighty enough to play god and take their lives. If this guy had just stayed inside like he was told he was in no danger whatsoever, and that IMO is the only viable reason to take someone's life, if they are threatening yours or that of your families.
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Re: Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

Postby Madison » Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:57 pm

PMoneyTKE wrote:Didn't mean to twist you're words, I guess I'm just taking them the wrong way. Sorry about that. In any case, I despise anyone who breaks the law but I despise more the people who take human life so lightly. Sure these people were criminals and most likely the scum of the earth, but I just don't understand how someone could decide that they were high and mighty enough to play god and take their lives. If this guy had just stayed inside like he was told he was in no danger whatsoever, and that IMO is the only viable reason to take someone's life, if they are threatening yours or that of your families.


No problem, all is good. :-)

And I respect your opinion on this. I've said many times that I'm quick to dismiss criminals like burglars as worthless pieces of garbage, so I really care less about their lives if they choose to break into someone's home in order to rob them. Sounds cold and heartless I know, but I really could care less if they live or die, and I'd honestly rather see them shot and killed, rather than them getting away with their crime. But I'm evil, and everyone already knows that. :-D
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Re: Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

Postby josebach » Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:54 pm

Madison wrote:I really care less about their lives if they choose to break into someone's home in order to rob them.


Burglary, not robbery. Big difference. ;-)
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Re: Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

Postby teddy ballgame » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:00 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:I'm not a fan whatsoever of someone taking it upon himself to play judge, jury, and executioner. If someone is in your house and you believe they are a threat to you or your family, shoot with impunity. But this guy killed two people for what? To protect his neighbor's property? Without any sort of trial (obviously), and with who knows how good of an idea of what was actually going on, this guy decided that the punishment for stealing a TV (or whatever) was death.

Exactly what I was going to say. The details over whether he yelled, "Bang! You're dead!" and whether he wanted to kill them mean nothing to me. The fact is, he took it into his own hands, when we have a legal system for that. He called the police, and should have let them handle it. It's not up to him to decide the police was too slow so it was time for him to just kill the guys. You guys want to talk about the right to bear arms, well what about the right to due process. Let the police catch the guys, arrest them, and give them a trial. If they were guilty, they will have gotten whatever punishment they deserved, but killing them on the spot is not that. I'm not defending the criminals here either. They should certainly be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and serve whatever punishment fits the crime.
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Re: Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

Postby deerayfan072 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:21 pm

josebach wrote:
Madison wrote:I really care less about their lives if they choose to break into someone's home in order to rob them.


Burglary, not robbery. Big difference. ;-)


very true
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Re: Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

Postby Madison » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:32 pm

josebach wrote:
Madison wrote:I really care less about their lives if they choose to break into someone's home in order to rob them.


Burglary, not robbery. Big difference. ;-)


Only if you can prove the criminals knew for fact no one was in the house prior to them breaking in. No sitter, no kids, no one. At that point, it's premeditated and makes their crime even worse, so I say shoot them in the feet, and work your way up their body planting a shot in them every 6 inches at a time until one of the shots finally kills them.

But you're right, both of the words have different meanings. How about:

If someone breaks into someone else's home with the intent of stealing, then I could care less about their lives and have no problems with them being shot and killed on sight by anyone who happens to witness the crime in progress.

;-D
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Re: Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

Postby Nfl Fan » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:56 am

teddy ballgame wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:I'm not a fan whatsoever of someone taking it upon himself to play judge, jury, and executioner. If someone is in your house and you believe they are a threat to you or your family, shoot with impunity. But this guy killed two people for what? To protect his neighbor's property? Without any sort of trial (obviously), and with who knows how good of an idea of what was actually going on, this guy decided that the punishment for stealing a TV (or whatever) was death.

Exactly what I was going to say. The details over whether he yelled, "Bang! You're dead!" and whether he wanted to kill them mean nothing to me. The fact is, he took it into his own hands, when we have a legal system for that. He called the police, and should have let them handle it. It's not up to him to decide the police was too slow so it was time for him to just kill the guys. You guys want to talk about the right to bear arms, well what about the right to due process. Let the police catch the guys, arrest them, and give them a trial. If they were guilty, they will have gotten whatever punishment they deserved, but killing them on the spot is not that. I'm not defending the criminals here either. They should certainly be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and serve whatever punishment fits the crime.


Yeah. Not into capping people for stealing my stuff. If the perps were threatening grave bodily harm to some victim of the crime, that's one thing. But that didn't appear to be the case.
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Re: Man Kills Neighbor's Burglars

Postby portisfan24 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:54 am

Read the whole thread and some interesting points were brought up for both sides, as of now I'm on the fence. I would like to ask one question though. Everyone who keeps going on about the right to bear arms and the Second Amendment, isn't there also something in your bill of rights or constitution (I'm Canadian not sure which it is) about the right to an attorney and a fair trial? Somehow I doubt this guy with a shotgun constitues a fair trial.
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