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Possible Collusion between 2 on league of friends.

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Possible Collusion between 2 on league of friends.

Postby THEOT » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:40 pm

I'm commissioner of a league of friends and friends of friends. To give you the dynamic of the league, there are 2 husband & wife couples on the league. One is myself and my wife. The other is a friend of mine. For future reference their names are J (him) & M (her).

Our trade deadline is this Friday the 30th. J is 8-4 and in 3rd place. M is in 7th place at 5-7. 12 team redraft league, top 6 make the playoffs with 1st and 2nd getting 1st round byes. Top 5 have clinched. The 6th place team is 6-6 and would not only have to lose, but M would have to win to get into the playoffs ahead of him. So tonight J & M decided to trade, in a last ditch effort to get her in, and I really think more to solidify his roster for the playoffs. Here's the trade.

Her:
Bobby Engram
LaDainian Tomlinson
Cedric Benson

for his:
Plaxico Burress
Warrick Dunn
Kevin Jones

Here's my problem, Burress is banged up, Dunn is washed up, so the only one I see helping her much is KJ. But KJ over LT? Not a chance, and I don't think Engram is a big drop from Burress right now with the way SEA is throwing the ball. Bigger problem is, Benson was placed on IR today, so he has no value which tells me its obviously to give him LT for the playoffs. Also, there is money involved further complicating this. Furthermore, with her a long shot to make the playoffs, it looks like it even more to me that they are loading him up for the playoffs.

Is it collusion?
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Re: Possible Collusion between 2 on league of friends.

Postby THEOT » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:45 am

Anybody? Please?
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Re: Possible Collusion between 2 on league of friends.

Postby totalair32 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:26 pm

It seems very close to collusion to me. What are her other RB's. There's no way Dunn and KJ are even equal to LT. Burress and Engram at this point in the season have similiar value, with me actually leaning towards the Engram side. The fact that this deal went down after Benson was done makes it sneaky as well. What does the other guys roster look like? Do dunn, jones, and burress even start for him?
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Re: Possible Collusion between 2 on league of friends.

Postby Battlecreek Dragon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:47 pm

I think we need to see both complete rosters to really look at this properly.
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Re: Possible Collusion between 2 on league of friends.

Postby THEOT » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:09 pm

Thanks guys, here are both rosters and our settings:
12 team PPR league, all TD's 6 pts, 14 spots, starting 1-QB, 2-RB, 2-WR, 1-TE, 1-W/R(FLEX), 1-K, 1-DEF

Her roster (M):
QB-Roethlisberger
RB-LT, ADP, Benson, Kolby Smith
WR-Welker, Engram, Mason, Stokley, Santana Moss, Brown
TE-Clark
K-Gostkowski
DEF-Chicago

His roster (J):
QB-Kitna
RB-SJax, Grant, Dunn, KJ, Hall
WR-Roy Williams, Plax, Harrison, Reggie Williams
TE-Lee
K-Rackers
DEF-GB

Thanks for the help!
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Re: Possible Collusion between 2 on league of friends.

Postby Battlecreek Dragon » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:46 pm

Here's my 2 cents worth. (Assuming your scoring is standard other than the PPR you mentioned)

M will be just fine with LT, ADP, and Smith this week. Fargas gashed the KC defense last week, do we really expect LT to do less, at home?

Given M's roster, Dunn should not crack her starting lineup the rest of the year if the trade is made. So in terms of value, Dunn is worthless to M. So we are really talking about trading LT for KJ and Engram for Plax.

I'd lay even money that M's lineup without the trade outscores her lineup (and J's too for that matter) with the trade this week. So how does this trade help M win in week 13 to try and make the playoffs? M would probably outscore J for the rest of the year.

I don't see the inclusion of Benson as evidence of collusion. It could be that the trade is fundamentally a 3 for 2 deal and Benson is the roster equalizer.

Is the trade so lopsided as to be absurd? I'm not sure I'd go that far. I would not make the deal, but the reality is, I'm not M and it's not my trade to make.

Before you veto the trade, you should inquire of both owners (even though they are H & W) to find out what the motives are. Maybe M really believes that KJ and Plax will shine. Maybe she thinks ADP won't be ready this week and will be limited in the future therefore she does need Dunn for depth.

Unless you can glean some evidence that this is collusion that way, I'm not sure it should be vetored. I don't see this as a trade that is blatantly unfair. I don't think it improves M at all, but that is just my opinion.
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Re: Possible Collusion between 2 on league of friends.

Postby SirGrotius » Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:24 am

See AP on that roster makes me think it's not outright collusion.
10 rushing yards - 1 pt
10 receiving yards - 1 pt
20 passing yards - 1 pt
All TDs - 6 pts (QBs favored)
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Re: Possible Collusion between 2 on league of friends.

Postby RK4 » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:51 pm

Battlecreek Dragon wrote:Here's my 2 cents worth. (Assuming your scoring is standard other than the PPR you mentioned)

M will be just fine with LT, ADP, and Smith this week. Fargas gashed the KC defense last week, do we really expect LT to do less, at home?

Given M's roster, Dunn should not crack her starting lineup the rest of the year if the trade is made. So in terms of value, Dunn is worthless to M. So we are really talking about trading LT for KJ and Engram for Plax.

I'd lay even money that M's lineup without the trade outscores her lineup (and J's too for that matter) with the trade this week. So how does this trade help M win in week 13 to try and make the playoffs? M would probably outscore J for the rest of the year.

I don't see the inclusion of Benson as evidence of collusion. It could be that the trade is fundamentally a 3 for 2 deal and Benson is the roster equalizer.

Is the trade so lopsided as to be absurd? I'm not sure I'd go that far. I would not make the deal, but the reality is, I'm not M and it's not my trade to make.

Before you veto the trade, you should inquire of both owners (even though they are H & W) to find out what the motives are. Maybe M really believes that KJ and Plax will shine. Maybe she thinks ADP won't be ready this week and will be limited in the future therefore she does need Dunn for depth.

Unless you can glean some evidence that this is collusion that way, I'm not sure it should be vetored. I don't see this as a trade that is blatantly unfair. I don't think it improves M at all, but that is just my opinion.

This is an excellent analysis and for the most part, I agree with it. However, I do think that the trade improves J significantly, even if it is a wash for M. J is now able to start (in brackets would be his current lineup):

RB - LT, SJax (vs. LT, Grant) UPGRADE
WR - Ro Williams, Engram or Re Williams (vs. Ro Williams, Plax) DOWNGRADE
Flex - Grant (vs. Dunn or KJ) UPGRADE

What makes this such a good trade for J is when Harrison returns to the lineup for Indy. Then he will have negated the loss of Plax, while significantly upgrading at flex and RB.

I would agree that the inclusion of Benson is questionable and poses useless results either way. In my book, LT and Engram for Plax and KJ is one-sided in that it truly only benefits J. Collusion? Perhaps. Veto the trade? This is why they pay you the big bucks! You know the participants better than anyone else. As a suggestion, for future pools like this involving close friends, I would not retain veto power as the sole means to decide trades - let the league vote on it and then use your veto only where absolutely necessary to break a tie, or to overrule a poor decision. This is why I don't like pools like this - gets too personal.

Good luck. :-)
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