QB WR combos are almost entirely dependent on the WR. What makes a great qb is his ability to find the open guy quickly enough, and the ability to get him the ball. That does not make a great QB-WR combo. It takes jake delhomme like tunnel vision for one receiver to make a truly great qb-wr combo.
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ivesaidway2much wrote:The difference between Big Ben and Easy E's playoff runs is the quality of their opponents. Ben played against a bunch of mediocre defenses, and a decent Seahawk team (and he got a lot of help from the officials in this one). The worst ranked defense Eli played was the Green Bay Packers at 11th, and the highest ranked Defense Ben played was Indianapolis at 11th.
Well, if you're going by yards per game, then you're correct, but you completely ignored the most important defensive stat: points per game. It really doesn't matter how many yards a defense gives up as long as they hold their opponents to very few points more than any other defense.
In scoring defense, Cincinnati was the only defense that Roethlisberger faced that wasn't ranked in the top 7 in scoring defense that year. The Bengals were 22nd, the Colts were 2nd, the Broncos were 3rd, and the Seahawks were 7th.
Actually points per game is the most useless defensive stat there is. It includes things like kick return scores and points off turnovers which the defense has little to no control over. I don't see how a defense is somehow worse for failing to run on the field and tackle Devin Hester in the middle of a punt play or Antonio Cromartie after he makes an interception. Having a good special teams unit or an offense that rarely turns the ball over has no effect on the quality of a defense. That's why the NFL ranks defenses by yards per game.
ivesaidway2much wrote:The difference between Big Ben and Easy E's playoff runs is the quality of their opponents. Ben played against a bunch of mediocre defenses, and a decent Seahawk team (and he got a lot of help from the officials in this one). The worst ranked defense Eli played was the Green Bay Packers at 11th, and the highest ranked Defense Ben played was Indianapolis at 11th.
Well, if you're going by yards per game, then you're correct, but you completely ignored the most important defensive stat: points per game. It really doesn't matter how many yards a defense gives up as long as they hold their opponents to very few points more than any other defense.
In scoring defense, Cincinnati was the only defense that Roethlisberger faced that wasn't ranked in the top 7 in scoring defense that year. The Bengals were 22nd, the Colts were 2nd, the Broncos were 3rd, and the Seahawks were 7th.
Actually points per game is the most useless defensive stat there is. It includes things like kick return scores and points off turnovers which the defense has little to no control over. I don't see how a defense is somehow worse for failing to run on the field and tackle Devin Hester in the middle of a punt play or Antonio Cromartie after he makes an interception. Having a good special teams unit or an offense that rarely turns the ball over has no effect on the quality of a defense. That's why the NFL ranks defenses by yards per game.
and yards per game are a great metric? The ultimate point of defense is to stop the other team from scoring. There are less special teams scores than instances where a defense goes soft and allows a ton of yards. You really need both, and if I am picking a fantasy d, its yards and turnovers. But in real life, the ppg stat (and many people, notably troy aikman) argue that it is the most important. Because it really is. I mean the reverse is true too, in that the team gets credit for points scored by the defense too. yards is more meaningless than the ppg scenarios you give imo.
The opening scene of the movie "Saving Private Ryan" is loosely based on games of dodgeball Brian Dawkins played in second grade.
ivesaidway2much wrote:The difference between Big Ben and Easy E's playoff runs is the quality of their opponents. Ben played against a bunch of mediocre defenses, and a decent Seahawk team (and he got a lot of help from the officials in this one). The worst ranked defense Eli played was the Green Bay Packers at 11th, and the highest ranked Defense Ben played was Indianapolis at 11th.
Well, if you're going by yards per game, then you're correct, but you completely ignored the most important defensive stat: points per game. It really doesn't matter how many yards a defense gives up as long as they hold their opponents to very few points more than any other defense.
In scoring defense, Cincinnati was the only defense that Roethlisberger faced that wasn't ranked in the top 7 in scoring defense that year. The Bengals were 22nd, the Colts were 2nd, the Broncos were 3rd, and the Seahawks were 7th.
Actually points per game is the most useless defensive stat there is. It includes things like kick return scores and points off turnovers which the defense has little to no control over. I don't see how a defense is somehow worse for failing to run on the field and tackle Devin Hester in the middle of a punt play or Antonio Cromartie after he makes an interception. Having a good special teams unit or an offense that rarely turns the ball over has no effect on the quality of a defense. That's why the NFL ranks defenses by yards per game.
What would you rather your favorite team's defense do: allow 350 yards and 6 points or 300 yards and 27 points? The Ravens were sixth in yardage defense this year, but did anyone laud Baltimore for its stellar defense in 2007?
Yeah, there are some things that defenses can't control, like interceptions or special teams, but over the course of a season, how much of a difference is that going to make? The Steelers have one of the worst special teams units in the NFL, and they still managed to give up the second fewest points per game in the NFL this year.
Maybe points given up overall isn't as good an indicator as points given up excluding special teams and defensive plays, but it's a much better indicator than yards given up.
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steelerfan513 wrote:What would you rather your favorite team's defense do: allow 350 yards and 6 points or 300 yards and 27 points? The Ravens were sixth in yardage defense this year, but did anyone laud Baltimore for its stellar defense in 2007?
Actually I thought Baltimore's defense did a fairly decent job this year. They were one of the few D's to actually make the Pats work for their scores. It's not easy to win games when Kyle Boller and Steve McNair are fumbling it away. And the Giants were 16th in ppg, so I guess that means their defense was pretty mediocre, too.
Yeah, there are some things that defenses can't control, like interceptions or special teams, but over the course of a season, how much of a difference is that going to make? The Steelers have one of the worst special teams units in the NFL, and they still managed to give up the second fewest points per game in the NFL this year.
It depends on the team's offense and special teams, which is the problem. Turnover-ridden offenses like the Giants and the Ravens have a huge effect on their defenses' points per game.
Maybe points given up overall isn't as good an indicator as points given up excluding special teams and defensive plays, but it's a much better indicator than yards given up.
Except it's not. A defense has full control over how many yards it gives up. That's not the case with points scored.
There are FAR too many defenses that are now being built up on the "bend but don't break" idea where they don't mind giving up plenty of yardage as long as they aren't giving up the big plays and points. Yardage is, for the most part, a VERY poor indicator of how a defense played. The Baltimore defense was terrible this year for nearly the entire season, they gave up over 25 points 8 times this season and over 30 points in 4 of those games. They were inconsistent at best and if part of your argument is based on the idea that you thought Baltimore's defense did a "fairly decent job this year", you're not going to win saying things like that. Despite the Ravens playing about as well as they were going to all year against NE, the Pats still scored 27 points on them. The Giants defense actually was mediocre for most of the year, but they turned it up when it counted. I mean they gave up 41 points to Minnesota, 45 to Dallas, and 35 to Green Bay. They were inconsistent on both sides of the ball this season until the playoffs.
mattb47 wrote:There are FAR too many defenses that are now being built up on the "bend but don't break" idea where they don't mind giving up plenty of yardage as long as they aren't giving up the big plays and points. Yardage is, for the most part, a VERY poor indicator of how a defense played. The Baltimore defense was terrible this year for nearly the entire season, they gave up over 25 points 8 times this season and over 30 points in 4 of those games. They were inconsistent at best and if part of your argument is based on the idea that you thought Baltimore's defense did a "fairly decent job this year", you're not going to win saying things like that. Despite the Ravens playing about as well as they were going to all year against NE, the Pats still scored 27 points on them. The Giants defense actually was mediocre for most of the year, but they turned it up when it counted. I mean they gave up 41 points to Minnesota, 45 to Dallas, and 35 to Green Bay. They were inconsistent on both sides of the ball this season until the playoffs.
That Vikings game is one of the games that leads me to believe that ppg is an overrated stat. Eli threw 3 interceptions that were returned for touchdowns and had another one inside the Giants 10 yard line. That was 28 points gift wrapped to the Vikings by one player with no connection whatsoever to the defense. The defense, on the other hand, held the team with the best rushing offense in the league to 3.3 yards per carry, and pretty much shut down Tavaris Jackson (which, obviously, is not much of feat). You tell me which is a better indication of the day the Giants defense had the 41 points the Vikings scored or the 250 yards they gained. EDIT: Oh yeah, and in the Week 1 game against the Cowboys and the Week 2 game against the Packers they gave up 478 and 368 yards, respectively.
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