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The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

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Re: The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

Postby Metroid » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:41 pm

Metroid wrote:Eli Manning is adopted.


And was well taught. :-b
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Re: The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

Postby mattb47 » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:48 pm

Some games may be decided such as that one by defensive TDs but VERY VERY few. I just pulled a few quick examples from the Giants season just to show how inconsistent they were as a team, if you want to spend your entire argument picking that apart then go right ahead....You completely ignored the bit about the Ravens I see....because they were NOT a good defense by any means this year and it matters little in the long run that they gave up so few yards. You also failed to acknowledge what is pretty much becoming the primary successful defensive scheme in the NFL where teams are willing to give up yards as long as they keep the big plays down and don't give up many TDs. Yards given up matter little in the grand scheme of things, you do not lose because the other team has more total yards than you do. If you're going to argue against a post, try not to ignore nearly everything I said of value and attack a small side note that I just added in near the end. Congratulations, you've successfully argued that Eli Manning and the Giants offense was not consistent this year....now if we were debating that, it would be a worthwhile argument.
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Re: The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

Postby ivesaidway2much » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:30 pm

mattb47 wrote:Some games may be decided such as that one by defensive TDs but VERY VERY few. I just pulled a few quick examples from the Giants season just to show how inconsistent they were as a team, if you want to spend your entire argument picking that apart then go right ahead.... You completely ignored the bit about the Ravens I see....because they were NOT a good defense by any means this year and it matters little in the long run that they gave up so few yards.
It's part of my point. The Giants offense hurt the defense's points per game. The turnovers from that one game knocked them down 5 spots in that category. The Ravens had a similar game against the Colts where three turnovers (2 inside the 20) on their side of the field and a safety lead to 23 points. I only talked more about the Giants because I saw about 10 more of their games than I did the Ravens.

You also failed to acknowledge what is pretty much becoming the primary successful defensive scheme in the NFL where teams are willing to give up yards as long as they keep the big plays down and don't give up many TDs.
I don't know why the scheme matters. Ultimately all defenses want to stop the other team. Outside of prevent defense, I don't know of any scheme that calls for just letting the other team get first downs and rack up easy yards. Limiting the big play is an attempt to limit yards as well as scores. A 63 yard pass to the 10 yard line still hurts quite a bit.

Yards given up matter little in the grand scheme of things, you do not lose because the other team has more total yards than you do.
Giving up significantly fewer yards, however, does make it easier to outscore the other team.

Congratulations, you've successfully argued that Eli Manning and the Giants offense was not consistent this year....now if we were debating that, it would be a worthwhile argument.
Did I say something that offended you? Because, I don't really know what I wrote that warranted condescending sarcasm.
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Re: The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

Postby PMoneyTKE » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:18 pm

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:-b
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Re: The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

Postby treat24 » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:36 pm

:-b :-b
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Re: The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

Postby steelerfan513 » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:30 pm

ivesaidway2much wrote:
mattb47 wrote:There are FAR too many defenses that are now being built up on the "bend but don't break" idea where they don't mind giving up plenty of yardage as long as they aren't giving up the big plays and points. Yardage is, for the most part, a VERY poor indicator of how a defense played. The Baltimore defense was terrible this year for nearly the entire season, they gave up over 25 points 8 times this season and over 30 points in 4 of those games. They were inconsistent at best and if part of your argument is based on the idea that you thought Baltimore's defense did a "fairly decent job this year", you're not going to win saying things like that. Despite the Ravens playing about as well as they were going to all year against NE, the Pats still scored 27 points on them. The Giants defense actually was mediocre for most of the year, but they turned it up when it counted. I mean they gave up 41 points to Minnesota, 45 to Dallas, and 35 to Green Bay. They were inconsistent on both sides of the ball this season until the playoffs.
That Vikings game is one of the games that leads me to believe that ppg is an overrated stat. Eli threw 3 interceptions that were returned for touchdowns and had another one inside the Giants 10 yard line. That was 28 points gift wrapped to the Vikings by one player with no connection whatsoever to the defense. The defense, on the other hand, held the team with the best rushing offense in the league to 3.3 yards per carry, and pretty much shut down Tavaris Jackson (which, obviously, is not much of feat). You tell me which is a better indication of the day the Giants defense had the 41 points the Vikings scored or the 250 yards they gained. EDIT: Oh yeah, and in the Week 1 game against the Cowboys and the Week 2 game against the Packers they gave up 478 and 368 yards, respectively.


For every game that devalues points in favor of yardage, there is another that does the opposite. Take the Buffalo-Denver game in week one. The Bills only allowed 15 points, and the Broncos won on a last-second field goal. Guess how many yards the Broncos had on offense?

470

So which defense did the better job in week one: the Rams defense that gave up 387 yards and 27 points, or the Buffalo defense that gave up 470 yards and 15 points?

Oh, and :-b :-b :-b at the video thingy. :-b
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Re: The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

Postby ivesaidway2much » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:43 pm

steelerfan513 wrote:
ivesaidway2much wrote:
mattb47 wrote:There are FAR too many defenses that are now being built up on the "bend but don't break" idea where they don't mind giving up plenty of yardage as long as they aren't giving up the big plays and points. Yardage is, for the most part, a VERY poor indicator of how a defense played. The Baltimore defense was terrible this year for nearly the entire season, they gave up over 25 points 8 times this season and over 30 points in 4 of those games. They were inconsistent at best and if part of your argument is based on the idea that you thought Baltimore's defense did a "fairly decent job this year", you're not going to win saying things like that. Despite the Ravens playing about as well as they were going to all year against NE, the Pats still scored 27 points on them. The Giants defense actually was mediocre for most of the year, but they turned it up when it counted. I mean they gave up 41 points to Minnesota, 45 to Dallas, and 35 to Green Bay. They were inconsistent on both sides of the ball this season until the playoffs.
That Vikings game is one of the games that leads me to believe that ppg is an overrated stat. Eli threw 3 interceptions that were returned for touchdowns and had another one inside the Giants 10 yard line. That was 28 points gift wrapped to the Vikings by one player with no connection whatsoever to the defense. The defense, on the other hand, held the team with the best rushing offense in the league to 3.3 yards per carry, and pretty much shut down Tavaris Jackson (which, obviously, is not much of feat). You tell me which is a better indication of the day the Giants defense had the 41 points the Vikings scored or the 250 yards they gained. EDIT: Oh yeah, and in the Week 1 game against the Cowboys and the Week 2 game against the Packers they gave up 478 and 368 yards, respectively.


For every game that devalues points in favor of yardage, there is another that does the opposite. Take the Buffalo-Denver game in week one. The Bills only allowed 15 points, and the Broncos won on a last-second field goal. Guess how many yards the Broncos had on offense?

470

So which defense did the better job in week one: the Rams defense that gave up 387 yards and 27 points, or the Buffalo defense that gave up 470 yards and 15 points?
I'd definitely go with the Bills. They might have been doormats, but they were impressive doormats. And from the looks of things that's what they did all season. They were 31st in the league in terms of yards per game. But at 17th they were only 1 spot behind the Giants in points per game.

Although I think in regards to our discussion about ypg vs. ppg, the more relevant question would be which D had the better day, the Giants with 250 yards and 41 points or the Bills with 470 yards and 15 points?

Oh, and :-b :-b :-b at the video thingy. :-b
I almost feel sorry for Brady (never thought I'd type that). He looks so scared. Why is Michael Strahan being so mean to him?
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Re: The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

Postby dream_017 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:44 am

This thread always make me laugh.


NEVER say NEVER
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Re: The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

Postby WaCougMBS » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:12 pm

dream_017 wrote:This thread always make me laugh.

NEVER say NEVER


:-b :-b :-b
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Re: The Giants will NEVER win it all with Eli

Postby Metroid » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:49 am

ivesaidway2much wrote:Is there anyway I can convince the OP to change the title of this thread to the Giants will NEVER two-peat with Eli?


Oops.
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