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Re: League Discussion

Postby Toltec » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:23 pm

I don't think you can reverse the auctions.

I didn't get to rebid on guys I lost when my internet was down for a week. I had no choice. The rules were in place prior to the draft. Everyone was aware that the auctions were still ongoing and that rookies could not be bid on until after the draft. A point brought up, I believe by you, when I bid on Jerry Hughes early. You could have checked back in, you didn't.

I am all for a rookie auction delay next year. But certain managers were playing by the rules. Just because you missed out on, by my count, one rookie before your first post mentioning the issue. Vets have been auctioned continuously, so those guys shouldn't even be a part of the argument.

In my opinion no rule change should take effect until next year.
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Re: League Discussion

Postby aaawall91 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:41 pm

I think if passed, the ruling should take place next year.

But I was thinking about one other thing, if there is ever a vote that is 12-0 than that rule should become effective immediately.
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Re: League Discussion

Postby WaCougMBS » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:12 pm

aaawall91 wrote:I think if passed, the ruling should take place next year.

But I was thinking about one other thing, if there is ever a vote that is 12-0 than that rule should become effective immediately.


Agreed, but this will never happen because of the people who will vote no to defend their comparative advantage gained by "following the rules". I'm all for finding a winning edge, but if there is one part of fantasy I hate, it's the testiness that always comes out when people are trying to circumvent the written rules and then get called out when it's
too late" and say that "there's no going back now" and "it wasn't explicitly in the rules", yada yada yada...\

I don't think it would be a fair move AT ALL to go back on any/all vets, but for the rookies I think it would be more than fair to start from scratch (and have a short "freeze" period followed by a 48-hour timer in the future). If you really want the guy, then go spend the money to outbid any interested parties - it's still just as fair that way and nobody is stopping you from getting a target other than yourself and/or your usage of the salary cap.

Just my 2 cents ;-)
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Re: League Discussion

Postby steelerfan513 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:16 pm

aaawall91 wrote:But I was thinking about one other thing, if there is ever a vote that is 12-0 than that rule should become effective immediately.


Unless it is specified that the vote is to change the rule immediately, I disagree. There's a difference between voting for something to change in one season and voting for it to change immediately. I agree that any vote to change a rule immediately NEEDS to be unanimous, but I don't think a unanimous vote on ANY rule should make the rule go into effect immediately; just for rules in which it is clear that the owners are voting to change the rule immediately.

WaCougMBS wrote:OK guys, so I have a bit of a complaint to lodge here. I know we had talked about moving to a 48-hour timer for the future FA pickups, but I think that should have applied to some of the FA rookies that were IMMEDIATELY (relatively speaking) posted after the draft completed and were won under the league members' radars, at least in some of our cases. Whether or not you were interested in said players doesn't really matter here IMO, but whether you noticed, etc.

If I'm way off base or the majority determines there's nothing that can be done until next year, then so be it, but I still feel like there should be a conversation :-?


I agree that this off-season has shown the need for a couple of rule changes. There are a lot of contracts that have yet to be processed and put into the MFL site, so a lot of teams may not have known how much they could spend in free agency when some of the free agents were signed.

I think allowing the commissioners to freeze free agent timers whenever there's a backup in uploading SUBMITTED contracts (not owners with rookies or re-signs for whom they have yet to submit contracts) to MFL would be a good idea. I also support making the FA time limit 48 hours because we have lives and may not be able to get to the Cafe every day, especially during the summer when people are on vacation, etc.

However, I don't support a moratorium on signing rookies for a certain amount of time following EVERY draft, nor do I support overturning any of the signings made since the draft. Why should teams have to wait to sign free agent rookies? The point at which the draft ends is clear, and while only the owner with the 4.12 pick may know exactly when it is, other owners should still be checking the website themselves to see who gets picked and thus who they can or cannot bid on in free agency, as well as checking if veterans have been put up for auction. If they're doing that, then they'll also see that rookies are up for bidding.

If dream, flots or the person with pick 4.12 feels motivated to send a PM to everyone at the end of the draft, then that's fine, but I don't think they should be required to do so, and it's not like owners won't have a chance to sign rookies put up for bidding right away if they're checking the league page every 24 hours or so (or every 48 hours or so if we extend the timer), which they should be doing in the first place in order to keep up with other league activity.
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Re: League Discussion

Postby Toltec » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:43 am

WaCougMBS wrote:
aaawall91 wrote:I think if passed, the ruling should take place next year.

But I was thinking about one other thing, if there is ever a vote that is 12-0 than that rule should become effective immediately.


Agreed, but this will never happen because of the people who will vote no to defend their comparative advantage gained by "following the rules". I'm all for finding a winning edge, but if there is one part of fantasy I hate, it's the testiness that always comes out when people are trying to circumvent the written rules and then get called out when it's
too late" and say that "there's no going back now" and "it wasn't explicitly in the rules", yada yada yada...\

I don't think it would be a fair move AT ALL to go back on any/all vets, but for the rookies I think it would be more than fair to start from scratch (and have a short "freeze" period followed by a 48-hour timer in the future). If you really want the guy, then go spend the money to outbid any interested parties - it's still just as fair that way and nobody is stopping you from getting a target other than yourself and/or your usage of the salary cap.

Just my 2 cents ;-)


well for one thing no one "circumvented" the rules. The auctions have never stopped.
For another why are you trying to punish the owners who checked in everyday? Just because you didn't you feel cheated? I am confused. You want us to change a rule so that you can "officially" circumvent that rule? Essentially what you are saying in your post is "the rules should fit my needs."

I am all for a 48 hour clock, but I think your approach, this "woe is me" approach, where you blame other owners for your own discrepancy is just ridiculous.
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Re: League Discussion

Postby dream_017 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:40 am

steelerfan513 wrote:
aaawall91 wrote:But I was thinking about one other thing, if there is ever a vote that is 12-0 than that rule should become effective immediately.


Unless it is specified that the vote is to change the rule immediately, I disagree. There's a difference between voting for something to change in one season and voting for it to change immediately. I agree that any vote to change a rule immediately NEEDS to be unanimous, but I don't think a unanimous vote on ANY rule should make the rule go into effect immediately; just for rules in which it is clear that the owners are voting to change the rule immediately.

WaCougMBS wrote:OK guys, so I have a bit of a complaint to lodge here. I know we had talked about moving to a 48-hour timer for the future FA pickups, but I think that should have applied to some of the FA rookies that were IMMEDIATELY (relatively speaking) posted after the draft completed and were won under the league members' radars, at least in some of our cases. Whether or not you were interested in said players doesn't really matter here IMO, but whether you noticed, etc.

If I'm way off base or the majority determines there's nothing that can be done until next year, then so be it, but I still feel like there should be a conversation :-?


I agree that this off-season has shown the need for a couple of rule changes. There are a lot of contracts that have yet to be processed and put into the MFL site, so a lot of teams may not have known how much they could spend in free agency when some of the free agents were signed.

I think allowing the commissioners to freeze free agent timers whenever there's a backup in uploading SUBMITTED contracts (not owners with rookies or re-signs for whom they have yet to submit contracts) to MFL would be a good idea. I also support making the FA time limit 48 hours because we have lives and may not be able to get to the Cafe every day, especially during the summer when people are on vacation, etc.

However, I don't support a moratorium on signing rookies for a certain amount of time following EVERY draft, nor do I support overturning any of the signings made since the draft. Why should teams have to wait to sign free agent rookies? The point at which the draft ends is clear, and while only the owner with the 4.12 pick may know exactly when it is, other owners should still be checking the website themselves to see who gets picked and thus who they can or cannot bid on in free agency, as well as checking if veterans have been put up for auction. If they're doing that, then they'll also see that rookies are up for bidding.

If dream, flots or the person with pick 4.12 feels motivated to send a PM to everyone at the end of the draft, then that's fine, but I don't think they should be required to do so, and it's not like owners won't have a chance to sign rookies put up for bidding right away if they're checking the league page every 24 hours or so (or every 48 hours or so if we extend the timer), which they should be doing in the first place in order to keep up with other league activity.

I agree with everything posted here. ;-D

- The rule needs to state that it would start in the current year - and in doing so, would need to be a 12-0 vote.

- Rules changes will be posted and voted on - the next one should be up soon. The latest (change to starting line-up) has been passed.

- All contracts should be up to date. The only ones that weren't were the few that were won within the last week or so. I updated those yesterday. I think with the making of the spreadsheet available as a google document(coming soon) should keep everyone updated on their current contract status. The contracts are usually up to date for the current year.

- I have previously halted bidding or delayed a 'next step' in the season schedule to make sure that things were current or to catch-up.

- The rules are in place and bidding has been continuous. Everyone should be checking in. There are times when we can't and there is going to be a rule vote to help with that (48 hour off-season bidding clock)
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Re: League Discussion

Postby flotsamnjetsam » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:32 am

dream_017 wrote:
steelerfan513 wrote:
aaawall91 wrote:But I was thinking about one other thing, if there is ever a vote that is 12-0 than that rule should become effective immediately.


Unless it is specified that the vote is to change the rule immediately, I disagree. There's a difference between voting for something to change in one season and voting for it to change immediately. I agree that any vote to change a rule immediately NEEDS to be unanimous, but I don't think a unanimous vote on ANY rule should make the rule go into effect immediately; just for rules in which it is clear that the owners are voting to change the rule immediately.

WaCougMBS wrote:OK guys, so I have a bit of a complaint to lodge here. I know we had talked about moving to a 48-hour timer for the future FA pickups, but I think that should have applied to some of the FA rookies that were IMMEDIATELY (relatively speaking) posted after the draft completed and were won under the league members' radars, at least in some of our cases. Whether or not you were interested in said players doesn't really matter here IMO, but whether you noticed, etc.

If I'm way off base or the majority determines there's nothing that can be done until next year, then so be it, but I still feel like there should be a conversation :-?


I agree that this off-season has shown the need for a couple of rule changes. There are a lot of contracts that have yet to be processed and put into the MFL site, so a lot of teams may not have known how much they could spend in free agency when some of the free agents were signed.

I think allowing the commissioners to freeze free agent timers whenever there's a backup in uploading SUBMITTED contracts (not owners with rookies or re-signs for whom they have yet to submit contracts) to MFL would be a good idea. I also support making the FA time limit 48 hours because we have lives and may not be able to get to the Cafe every day, especially during the summer when people are on vacation, etc.

However, I don't support a moratorium on signing rookies for a certain amount of time following EVERY draft, nor do I support overturning any of the signings made since the draft. Why should teams have to wait to sign free agent rookies? The point at which the draft ends is clear, and while only the owner with the 4.12 pick may know exactly when it is, other owners should still be checking the website themselves to see who gets picked and thus who they can or cannot bid on in free agency, as well as checking if veterans have been put up for auction. If they're doing that, then they'll also see that rookies are up for bidding.

If dream, flots or the person with pick 4.12 feels motivated to send a PM to everyone at the end of the draft, then that's fine, but I don't think they should be required to do so, and it's not like owners won't have a chance to sign rookies put up for bidding right away if they're checking the league page every 24 hours or so (or every 48 hours or so if we extend the timer), which they should be doing in the first place in order to keep up with other league activity.

I agree with everything posted here. ;-D

- The rule needs to state that it would start in the current year - and in doing so, would need to be a 12-0 vote.

- Rules changes will be posted and voted on - the next one should be up soon. The latest (change to starting line-up) has been passed.

- All contracts should be up to date. The only ones that weren't were the few that were won within the last week or so. I updated those yesterday. I think with the making of the spreadsheet available as a google document(coming soon) should keep everyone updated on their current contract status. The contracts are usually up to date for the current year.

- I have previously halted bidding or delayed a 'next step' in the season schedule to make sure that things were current or to catch-up.

- The rules are in place and bidding has been continuous. Everyone should be checking in. There are times when we can't and there is going to be a rule vote to help with that (48 hour off-season bidding clock)



Agreed on everything. ;-D

One thing I'd like to add that might help. For next year, maybe we should freeze the FA bidding while we're holding the rookie draft & then reopen bidding at a certain time after the rookie draft. Thoughts? :-?
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Re: League Discussion

Postby steelerfan513 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:45 am

flotsamnjetsam wrote:One thing I'd like to add that might help. For next year, maybe we should freeze the FA bidding while we're holding the rookie draft & then reopen bidding at a certain time after the rookie draft. Thoughts? :-?


I say that it shouldn't be necessary, because owners can still be checking in on free agents in a timely manner regardless of whether or not the draft is in progress.

More importantly, I'd also like to point out that this year's draft took 29 days. Players' values can change significantly over 29 days. I'd be pretty angry if I wanted to sign a sleeper player for cheap during the rookie draft only to have his sleeper status vanish while I'm restricted from signing him, thus making his signing much more expensive than it would have been when I wanted to sign him initially.

Again, if you or dream wants to take it upon yourself to send a notification PM to everyone at or near the end of the draft (or pass a rule delegating that responsibility to the person with the last pick), then that might be something worth discussing. But I don't think there's any quality reason to prevent any free agents, rookie or veteran, from being bid upon right after the draft is over. To my knowledge, the NFL doesn't have any issues with allowing rookie free agent signings immediately following the draft, and I don't see why we should have any either.
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Re: League Discussion

Postby dream_017 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:03 pm

I don't see an issue with having the FA period running during the rookie draft. Within minutes(at least it seems) of the NFL draft being completed there are free agents signing with teams. I see no problem with the draft being done and rookie FAs being bid on (especially with a 48 hour clock - if passed).
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Re: League Discussion

Postby WaCougMBS » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:01 pm

dream_017 wrote:I don't see an issue with having the FA period running during the rookie draft. Within minutes(at least it seems) of the NFL draft being completed there are free agents signing with teams. I see no problem with the draft being done and rookie FAs being bid on (especially with a 48 hour clock - if passed).


Agreed ;-D
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