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Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

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Re: Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

Postby Nfl Fan » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:00 am

Omaha Red Sox wrote:I, too, admire a man who is without faith, but still a good man. Because I don't know how he would do it. I couldn't. I didn't. Without God I'm a horrible person. That's just truth. I think Nfl would probably say the same thing. Joel wouldn't though. He's been a good little boy his whole life. His poop smells nice.


ROTFLOL!! :-b
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Re: Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:01 am

josebach wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:I, too, admire a man who is without faith, but still a good man. Because I don't know how he would do it. I couldn't. I didn't. Without God I'm a horrible person. That's just truth. I think Nfl would probably say the same thing. Joel wouldn't though. He's been a good little boy his whole life. His poop smells nice. :-D


If you really are a good person now, then you're not giving yourself enough credit. You control you, nobody else does.


I control my initial decision. Someone else controls everything else. ;-)
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Re: Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

Postby Nfl Fan » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:38 am

josebach wrote:
Omaha Red Sox wrote:I, too, admire a man who is without faith, but still a good man. Because I don't know how he would do it. I couldn't. I didn't. Without God I'm a horrible person. That's just truth. I think Nfl would probably say the same thing. Joel wouldn't though. He's been a good little boy his whole life. His poop smells nice. :-D


If you really are a good person now, then you're not giving yourself enough credit.


Thing is, the true Christian measures his goodness by the standard of Christ. Sinless perfection. And by that measure, we know we all suck! The closer we get to Christ, the more we know we suck because we see more clearly the depths of our own sin and depravity.

The good news is this: " CHRIST CAME TO EARTH FOR THE SOLE REASON TO PAY FOR MY SIN! "

Yours too. ;-D

So, don't take it on blind faith. I don't believe in blind faith. There is more than enough reason, evidence, and proof of God's Word to convince a guy like me... a guy who came to know the truth initially from a purely intellectual perspective.

I can see you still struggle with it. I would suggest having an open-minded look at it from a different angle than the one you knew and eventually left. PM or open forum... doesn't matter to me. Let's talk.
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Re: Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

Postby joelamosobadiah » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:41 am

You know, our pastor puts it this way. He says that even somebody saved at a young age is just as worthy of the penalty of sin as anybody else. If you are old enough to understand the concept of salvation and guilt of sin, you are just as guilty as anybody else regardless of what they have done.

I was saved when I was just 4. Very young. I did fully believe what I knew of the Bible and Jesus at that time. And yes, a great part of that was because of what my parents taught me to believe. However there comes a time in everybody's life (and mine as well) when it can't be your parent's faith that you believe on anymore and you have to decide that its what you believe. I can distinctly remember the exact day and time that happened for me.

I believe the Bible completely and entirely. There are some things that I don't understand and some that don't even make sense to me, but I am persuaded that it is true due to the evidence that I see in the Bible as well as the evidence I have seen in real life. I have never seen a blind person start seeing due to any other religion or witchcraft, but I have seen one see when prayed for in the name of Jesus. I have never seen any miraculous healings done by another religion, but I have seen with my own eyes, limbs grow miraculously from a stub, people get out of a wheelchair and start dancing. I have prayed for a person and seen a bulge on their arm disappear back into their arm. That's proof enough for me.
Jesus said in Mark 16 that signs and wonders will follow those that believe and I can witness to that.

For Christians, the bottom line should be first that the Bible says that all have sinned, second that the penalty for sin is death. Third, that You can't be good on anything you have done:
[quote=Isaiah 64:6]6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags
[/quote]
Then the good news comes in the way that I am sure everybody has heard it. Jesus took the penalty for our sin and he was able to do this because he never sinned himself. The man that never did anything wrong. The only man that ever could go to Heaven on his own merit, literally took ownership of our sin when he died. Since our sin in credited to Him, we can go to Heaven.

I know that sounded preachy, but I couldn't call myself a Christian if I didn't say what I felt like I needed to say. Basically, that's the way that I believe and that is why most people have such a hard time with true Christianity. It is "intolerant" to borrow a seemingly newfound buzz-word. It's not intolerant in that we won't accept those with sinful pasts, or people different than us or anything like that. Jesus broke bread with the worst of sinners and people who were mostly hated by all in the tax collectors. It is intolerant though in that it says that the ONLY way to get to Heaven is through belief in Jesus Christ. It accepts no other path than believing on Jesus. That hurts a lot of people, but in my mind, that is the truth and I am convinced of it.






OK, well I guess like the OP I had an itch I just had to scratch Jose. Wouldn't have been happy with myself had I not typed that out. I had to. Anyway, I hope nobody gets offended, but I had to put that out there. :-b
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Re: Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

Postby josebach » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:12 am

Nfl Fan wrote:So, don't take it on blind faith. I don't believe in blind faith. There is more than enough reason, evidence, and proof of God's Word to convince a guy like me... a guy who came to know the truth initially from a purely intellectual perspective.

Intellectual perspective? How come there are so many differences among Christians as to how literally to take the Bible? The only way I could see someone knowing the truth from an intellectual perspective is if you took almost the complete book figuratively. Look at the vast differences in passages describing God. In one book, he's a vengeful irrational God that says adulterers and people who work on Sundays should be put to death. In another book, he has a message full of love. Even if you disregard all of the extreme stories about miracles and arks (many of which were incorporated form earlier cultures), doesn't it ring true that what you're really reading is simply words from two different people? Of course when I was a Christian I rationalized it too... just like all Christians are forced to do.


Nfl Fan wrote:I can see you still struggle with it. I would suggest having an open-minded look at it from a different angle than the one you knew and eventually left. PM or open forum... doesn't matter to me. Let's talk.


I'm willing to consider that in a way, all religions are right and despite the obvious earthly origins of each and every one of them, they serve a purpose of providing what some people need. In other words, regardless of the religion, the relationship you develop between yourself and God is real (and wanted by God), but all of the other fantastical stuff is exactly what it appears to be. Manmade creation. (all of this is assuming some type of higher power is real, of course)

What I'm not willing to do is go against what my brain tells me is the obvious and simple truth. That nobody knows the answers to these unanswerable questions. Why can't we just say "I don't know"? (Yes, I know I've asked that before) I can tell you with 100% certainty, that whatever struggles I do have are in no way related to me pondering Christian faith. Overcoming what I was taught my whole life and becoming agnostic, is one of the things I"m most proud of. God gave us a brain capable of deductive reasoning. I don't believe for a second he would give us this and the expect us not to use it in matters of spirituality... especially, when the physical world we see with our own eyes is so incredibly logical.
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Re: Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

Postby Omaha Red Sox » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:15 am

Great post Joel.
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Re: Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

Postby RiffRaff » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:48 am

Let's get back on track. ;-D
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Re: Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

Postby Nfl Fan » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:05 pm

josebach wrote:
Nfl Fan wrote:So, don't take it on blind faith. I don't believe in blind faith. There is more than enough reason, evidence, and proof of God's Word to convince a guy like me... a guy who came to know the truth initially from a purely intellectual perspective.

Intellectual perspective? How come there are so many differences among Christians as to how literally to take the Bible? The only way I could see someone knowing the truth from an intellectual perspective is if you took almost the complete book figuratively.


Au Contraire, my friend. I imagine the only way for you to understand the intellectual infallibilty of such subjects as Bible Prophesy is to study it. The prophetic nature of the Bible is a phenomenal, and there is no way I could even scratch the surface without typing all day. Suffice it to say; (1) over 25% of the Bible is prophetic in nature, (2) 80% of it has come to pass in amazing detail, and (3) we're watching the last 20% unfold before our eyes.

Many men of our day have devoted their entire lives to studying, understanding, and teaching God's Word. Here is the link to my favorite pastor I ever had. He's been on it for decades and has a wealth of knowledge that you can draw from on a multitude of different subjects including what God's Word says about the days in which we currently live. http://www.joncourson.com/

I gotta go, and I'm not at work so I won't be on here all day! :-D

Great post, Joel!! ;-D Jose, every Christian I know can testify to amazing things God has done. I got stories just like Joel. We all do. It's because God is real; He sent His Son out of an immense love for you; and you get to choose to persue Him or reject Him.

Choose wisely, my friend. Choose wisely. B-)
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Re: Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

Postby josebach » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:31 pm

Nfl Fan wrote:Great post, Joel!! ;-D Jose, every Christian I know can testify to amazing things God has done. I got stories just like Joel. We all do. It's because God is real; He sent His Son out of an immense love for you; and you get to choose to persue Him or reject Him.

Choose wisely, my friend. Choose wisely. B-)


See, I see it that every Christian can testify to amazing things that they give God credit for. :-?

Choose wisely? Considering a vast majority of people didn't grow up in a Christian society and weren't exposed to Christianity, how can they choose (as you say) wisely? If God is really willing to condemn 80% of the world's population to hell simply for a lack of exposure, then it's a God that hasn't earned my worship. :-t

Of course if God exists, I don't believe for a second he would ever be that unjust, so it's kind of a moot point.
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Re: Know how I know karma doesn't exist?

Postby Nfl Fan » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:05 pm

josebach wrote:
Nfl Fan wrote:Great post, Joel!! ;-D Jose, every Christian I know can testify to amazing things God has done. I got stories just like Joel. We all do. It's because God is real; He sent His Son out of an immense love for you; and you get to choose to persue Him or reject Him.

Choose wisely, my friend. Choose wisely. B-)


See, I see it that every Christian can testify to amazing things that they give God credit for.


OK... explain this any other way...

This was one of those cool things God did just because He's God, and He's very cool, and He gets to be that because He's God. :-) It had no significant value for anybody or anything other than just doing something cool for me.

I was on the foredeck of a 116' yacht out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. About thirty feet away up on the wheelhouse was this little bird. I'm not sure why I thought to do this, but I said out loud, "Little bird, in the name of Jesus, come here!" At that moment, the bird flew straight at me, bounced its feet off my shoulder, and kept on flying. Now, why would that happen? I'll tell you why... it's because the God of all Creation made it happen.

So I kinda agree with you... it was an amazing thing that I give God credit for! ;-D

The Christian life is full of cool things that God does. It's one of the reasons you can't tell us any different. I can give personal testemony to the things He has done. I can tell you about experiences regarding prophetic stuff He has done in my life. It goes on and on. Telling somebody who has a relationship with God that God doesn't exist is like me telling somebody that their brother doesn't exist simply because I don't know the guy. We know what has happened in our lives and it's silly to tell us that it's not true.

Check into Bible prophesy. It is the thing that got my attention. I was like you... raised in a luke-warm church (Revelation 3: 15,16) and completely not interested in any of it as a young man. Then I read a bunch of books on this major theme that is rarely taught in lukewarm churches. You cannot study this subject and come away without realizing that there is something going on.

Jesus Christ... the soon coming King.

I've read the end of the Book, and He wins. It will be good for you to be found in Him when He returns.
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