Martz and V. Davis - Fantasy Football Cafe 2014 Fantasy Football Cafe


Return to Football Talk

Martz and V. Davis

Moderator: Football Moderators

Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby onnestabe » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:11 pm

SLAMLLC wrote:Last year even missing a lot of time in my league Vernon finished 10th amoung TE. It sounds like most of you have written off his career by now. Thats fine, I understand the disappointment he has been up to this point. I think Martz will have to utilize his talent on that team even if he doesn't want to for some reason. In my league TE scoring is different than every other league I have heard of so TE tend to have great value. I think I will be looking forward to giving him another try this year. Thanks for the replies.


I don't know that anyone has written off his career, but expectations are tempered. He's had two rather unimpressive years (#10 TE is like #20 RB - good but nothing to get excited about), and I'm not sure that it's always wise to extrapolate a partial year's production to 16 games. It's entirely possible that last year's injury problems will become a trend. The more disturbing thing is that he has had problems catching the ball consistently. That's not something that Martz is going to stand for, perhaps to the point that he will see less targets than the already reduced number that TEs get in Martz's system.

He can crack the starting fantasy lineup with #10 TE numbers, but you're not counting on the guy for a lot of points, and you're definitely keeping your eyes open for someone to take his place. As far as Martz utilizing the talent on his team, I don't know that he necessarily has shown that track record. If anything, he has shown a propensity to use guys from his old teams - Furrey, Shaun McDonald, now Isaac Bruce. In the past, his offense has created value for QBs and WRs, and de-emphasized the running game and TEs.
onnestabe
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe RankerEagle Eye
Posts: 4074
Joined: 6 Oct 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Cincinnati - West Price Hill

Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby MrTwo94 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:04 am

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21261.html

Here's a little typical happy offseason article but I'm still staying away from Davis. Martz seems like a very stubborn OC. If he refuses to use S.Jackson properly, I don't see why he'd use Vernon Davis. He's never used a TE in the past, so I don't see him changing his complex schemes for one guy. Sure they're paying Davis a lot but DET was paying Roy and Calvin a lot and yet we saw McDonald putting up better numbers than both of them at times. So yeah, he'll use Davis, but most likely as a decoy. But who knows... maybe this will be the first TE to score some points under Martz. I'm just not betting on it at this point. Maybe later in the offseason when I see something substantial, but I'm going to side w/history right now.
MrTwo94
Special Teams Staff
Special Teams Staff

User avatar

Posts: 329
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Houston

Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby Cowboys 4 life » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:46 am

I agree with love Boat. Can anyone think of a TE that did well under Martz? None I can remember. I think he lines up VD as a big WR like someone said. Mismatches around the goal line etc.
Image
Image
Cowboys 4 life
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerCafe Blackjack Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 9515
(Past Year: 79)
Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Somewhere between Silicon Valley and a bunch of Fruits

Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby Kensat30 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:34 pm

Vernon Davis drops too many passes.

That is the bottomline.

He's not the Troy Williamson of TEs, but he will NEVER be Tony Gonzalez and he will NEVER be Antonio Gates. Diehard Niner fan here, and I wish it wasn't true but it is. Jason Witten should have proved to you last season that it isn't athleticism that makes Gonzalez and Gates great, it is there ability to play football. OR as Herm Edwards might say "You have to CATCH the ball." Vernon's upside is a low end top5 TE IMO. That is the upside and not what you should expect. I expect him to be a top10 TE because he is a #1 TE not involved in a TEBC.

Vernon Davis is easily the most overrated TE from a fantasy perspective in my eyes. Talk about Martz all you want, but it really just comes down to Vernon Davis the player. And guess what, he's not as good as you think.
Kensat30
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe Writer
Posts: 6427
Joined: 2 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby Kilroy » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:31 am

Kensat30 wrote:Vernon Davis drops too many passes.

That is the bottomline.

He's not the Troy Williamson of TEs, but he will NEVER be Tony Gonzalez and he will NEVER be Antonio Gates. Diehard Niner fan here, and I wish it wasn't true but it is. Jason Witten should have proved to you last season that it isn't athleticism that makes Gonzalez and Gates great, it is there ability to play football. OR as Herm Edwards might say "You have to CATCH the ball." Vernon's upside is a low end top5 TE IMO. That is the upside and not what you should expect. I expect him to be a top10 TE because he is a #1 TE not involved in a TEBC.

Vernon Davis is easily the most overrated TE from a fantasy perspective in my eyes. Talk about Martz all you want, but it really just comes down to Vernon Davis the player. And guess what, he's not as good as you think.


Good post kensat. Solid info from a SF fan not afraid to set down the "homerism" (not that I'm calling you a homer) in the interests of speaking the truth, painful as it may be.

FWIW, I think you hit the nail squarely on the head here. The hype just don't match the output with VD.
Image

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
Kilroy
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe Musketeer
Posts: 13587
Joined: 6 Oct 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Making My List and Checking It Twice...

Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby SLAMLLC » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:14 am

I appreciate all the input guys. A lot of knowlege here. I appreciate the insight into Martz tendencies. I just wonder if maybe judgement is being made a little early on Davis, thats all. Just something to ponder. About the only thing I can say with certainty is that Davis has been injured a lot. He has only played 21 NFL games out of a possible 32. 21 games is not enough for me to say wether or not he is overrated. Normally 21 games could give you an idea of a players value, but San Frans passing game has been horrid the past two years. Their QB's plain and simply suck. This year they went through three of the and last year Smith was about the worst in the league for a season long starter. Since Davis has been in SF Smith has 16 of 22 games under 194 total passing yards. 19 of 22 games had under 214 total passing yards. 19 of 22!!!!! Take out of those yards the yards Gore took on dump offs and screens and it looks very bad.

I'm not saying Davis is great I am just saying maybe one more season is in order to make a judgement on wether or not he is a bust. I think situations in SF have made things look worse than they might be for him. Granted his durability is a big knock against him. The QB situaton has not improved much other than Alex Smith gaining experience. Then I look at talent they have with Martz to work with because he will not deal with 73% of the games being played with under 200 yards passing. Just seems to me that they don't have much choice but to get Davis the ball more this year. Hopefully he can stay healthy.
SLAMLLC Beginner
Defensive Assistant
Defensive Assistant


Posts: 353
Joined: 9 Apr 2007
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby stomperrob » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:24 am

It's June, and Martz swoons over Davis' talent
By Matthew Barrows - mbarrows@sacbee.com
Published 12:06 am PDT Tuesday, June 24, 2008


SANTA CLARA – When Vernon Davis watches film of Mike Martz's past offenses, he doesn't follow the tight end. He is told instead to watch receivers Isaac Bruce or Torry Holt streaking downfield.

And therein lies one of the biggest differences between Martz's St. Louis Rams offenses from early this decade and the one he is building in San Francisco. He'll still use four receivers to put pressure on defensive backs. Two of those receivers just might happen to be tight ends.

"I don't know if anyone in the league can run like he can at that position," Martz, the 49ers' first-year offensive coordinator, said of Davis. "He gets down the field so fast. I don't know who beats him in a footrace."

Martz said none of his offensive players worked harder this spring than Davis, who was on the field before practice started and hung around after it ended to hone his receiving skills.

con't...



rest of article: http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/1034766.html
Image
Fantasy Football: "Luck is where preparation meets opportunity"
stomperrob
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 13579
(Past Year: 138)
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Steeler Nation!!!

Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby Azrael » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:00 pm

There's not point in drafting a project like VD when you have a perfectly capable overlooked TE in Tony Scheffler that is never drafted also. Greg Olsen is another guy I'd go with before VD. You can just tell by watching him he's a dynamic player and the Bears really have no on else to throw to besides Hester. Considering how uncertain either Orton or Grossman will be, they will look to him alot. I'd put both these guys on my team with no hesitation if their bye weeks weren't both week 8.
Image
Azrael
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 8283
(Past Year: 7)
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Keeping da cafe sucka free for 9 years straight

Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby Kensat30 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:15 pm

With all the glowing praise Davis is receiving this offseason, you have to remember why he was drafted #6 overall. The guy is a workout maniac. He's a physical freak. Of course he is going to look great in shorts and shoulder pads. He is as strong as an offensive lineman. And I am not surpised he is putting in a ton of time working out. But I am still skeptical that he can become the player we want him to be. Watching him on the football field the past couple of years has had left me unimpressed. And it's gonna take a lot of preseason fluff articles to even begin to turn my observations around and make me believe that Davis is an elite TE.

A guy like Antonio Gates oozes talent on the field, even from his rookie year. Guys like Witten and even Chris Cooley shown a steady progression in their development and become weapons even if they are not athletic wonders like Gates and Davis. Davis has really shown nothing, his progression is just not there. The guy continues to show that he can get open... and drop more balls than he should. Draft this guy in 2008 because you think they will forcefeed him the ball like a WR. Personally, I'll have to see it to believe. I'll be watching preseason game 3 very closely to see how often he lines up at WR.
Kensat30
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Cafe Writer
Posts: 6427
Joined: 2 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Football

Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby Azrael » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:27 pm

Kensat30 wrote: Draft this guy in 2008 because you think they will forcefeed him the ball like a WR. Personally, I'll have to see it to believe. I'll be watching preseason game 3 very closely to see how often he lines up at WR.


This would be the only reason I would draft him. If Martz for some reason makes him out to be like his WR2 but I could still plug him into my lineup as a TE then he's very draftable. But if he uses him like he's used all of his other TEs then I'm not sure it's worth it, unless he's your backup.
Image
Azrael
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Fantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 8283
(Past Year: 7)
Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Keeping da cafe sucka free for 9 years straight

PreviousNext

Return to Football Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Start & Sit Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2014 NFL season kicks off in 11:53 hours
(and 37 days)
2014 NFL Schedule


  • Fantasy Football
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact