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Martz and V. Davis

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Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby stomperrob » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:01 pm

Kensat30 wrote:With all the glowing praise Davis is receiving this offseason, you have to remember why he was drafted #6 overall. The guy is a workout maniac. He's a physical freak. Of course he is going to look great in shorts and shoulder pads. He is as strong as an offensive lineman. And I am not surpised he is putting in a ton of time working out. But I am still skeptical that he can become the player we want him to be. Watching him on the football field the past couple of years has had left me unimpressed. And it's gonna take a lot of preseason fluff articles to even begin to turn my observations around and make me believe that Davis is an elite TE.

A guy like Antonio Gates oozes talent on the field, even from his rookie year. Guys like Witten and even Chris Cooley shown a steady progression in their development and become weapons even if they are not athletic wonders like Gates and Davis. Davis has really shown nothing, his progression is just not there. The guy continues to show that he can get open... and drop more balls than he should. Draft this guy in 2008 because you think they will forcefeed him the ball like a WR. Personally, I'll have to see it to believe. I'll be watching preseason game 3 very closely to see how often he lines up at WR.


So what about converted WR Delanie Walker - any threat to steal the job, he seems to have better hands? Not exactly the prototypical build of a TE - will he just play in 2TE formations and maybe in relief of Davis in some passing situations?
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Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby LS2throwed » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:11 pm

I didn't really read through the whole thread but sorry, consider me on the other side of the fence that isn't buying all the hype, if were just going to get excited about his draft position and measurables we would all still have Matt Jones on our fantasy rosters right now but thats not the case...He has been dropping lots of balls, his route running needs work, and reports were that he was struggling trying to grasp the mental aspect such as the playbook, and its not like that gets easier when Martz comes to town...I like his potential and upside, but I'm certainly not expecting him to take a leap into the upper echeleon of TE's just because of Martz.


Guys like Scheffler, Olsen, and even Heath Miller I think are better/safer picks, and Scheffler and Olsen provide more upside...If I'm in a dynasty or keeper I'd prefer one of those TE's, but Davis certainly is the type who if he puts it together could become a freak, but its more to being a great TE then just being really fast and strong.
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Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby Kensat30 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:46 pm

If you're gonna grab any 49er player, I think the value lies in Bryant Johnson as a WR4 or even a WR5. Then again if Vernon Davis is sitting there at TE8 or TE9 you have to give him serious consideration as well.
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Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby Polar Bear » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:28 pm

bdrotoronto wrote:As long as Alex Smith is the QB there, I don't care what the system is, I'm not buying.


This guy gets it. ;-D
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Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby BigBadBrawler » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:19 pm

Polar Bear wrote:
bdrotoronto wrote:As long as Alex Smith is the QB there, I don't care what the system is, I'm not buying.


This guy gets it. ;-D


I'd agree in any system except a Martz one. Smith is garbage, but Ryan-freakin-Fitzpatrick threw for over 300 yards in a game under the Martz system. The guy can spin gold from mediocre QBs. As long as you're smart enough to make the reads, you can be an effective passer in a Martz system and put up good FF stats. The SF passing game will be in the top half of the league this year because of that, and that means that one of the QBs and one or two of the pass-catchers will have some kinda FF value...
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Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby Timbathia » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:36 pm

BigBadBrawler wrote:
Polar Bear wrote:
bdrotoronto wrote:As long as Alex Smith is the QB there, I don't care what the system is, I'm not buying.


This guy gets it. ;-D


I'd agree in any system except a Martz one. Smith is garbage, but Ryan-freakin-Fitzpatrick threw for over 300 yards in a game under the Martz system. The guy can spin gold from mediocre QBs. As long as you're smart enough to make the reads, you can be an effective passer in a Martz system and put up good FF stats. The SF passing game will be in the top half of the league this year because of that, and that means that one of the QBs and one or two of the pass-catchers will have some kinda FF value...


The 49ers attempts, completions and interceptions totals will all go up. Even is VD only sees 1 or 2 extra passes a week, that would move him up to the top of the TEs not in the big 6 from last year. I think that is about where he belongs. I cant see top 5 numbers, but he could easily be just outside of that, and I dont see guys like Scheffler being that much higher in upside. I think VD is a good 'wait til everyone else has one' TE so you can stack up on WRs and RBs. Though of one of the top 6 fall, it is probably worth the pick as the difference between their numbers and everyone else's was sick last year.
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Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby LS2throwed » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:45 am

Timbathia wrote:The 49ers attempts, completions and interceptions totals will all go up. Even is VD only sees 1 or 2 extra passes a week, that would move him up to the top of the TEs not in the big 6 from last year. I think that is about where he belongs. I cant see top 5 numbers, but he could easily be just outside of that, and I dont see guys like Scheffler being that much higher in upside. I think VD is a good 'wait til everyone else has one' TE so you can stack up on WRs and RBs. Though of one of the top 6 fall, it is probably worth the pick as the difference between their numbers and everyone else's was sick last year.



On the field Scheffler has looked alot more sound at the TE position, he runs better routes, shows better hands, and uses his athleticism alot better then VD has to this point...Davis is still living off his draft stock and combine hype, but on the field everything hasn't been put together yet, and with his skill set he should be able to dominate as a TE...Granted his learning curve might be a little slower and he could still develop, I just couldn't see putting him higher then somebody like Scheffler who has actually looked comfortable playing the TE position and made a few acrobatic catches...Add in the relationship he has is better with his QB, and his QB and overall offense is better.
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Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby The Lung » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:58 pm

(~);}

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(~);}
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Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby Timbathia » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:58 pm

LS2throwed wrote:
Timbathia wrote:The 49ers attempts, completions and interceptions totals will all go up. Even is VD only sees 1 or 2 extra passes a week, that would move him up to the top of the TEs not in the big 6 from last year. I think that is about where he belongs. I cant see top 5 numbers, but he could easily be just outside of that, and I dont see guys like Scheffler being that much higher in upside. I think VD is a good 'wait til everyone else has one' TE so you can stack up on WRs and RBs. Though of one of the top 6 fall, it is probably worth the pick as the difference between their numbers and everyone else's was sick last year.



On the field Scheffler has looked alot more sound at the TE position, he runs better routes, shows better hands, and uses his athleticism alot better then VD has to this point...Davis is still living off his draft stock and combine hype, but on the field everything hasn't been put together yet, and with his skill set he should be able to dominate as a TE...Granted his learning curve might be a little slower and he could still develop, I just couldn't see putting him higher then somebody like Scheffler who has actually looked comfortable playing the TE position and made a few acrobatic catches...Add in the relationship he has is better with his QB, and his QB and overall offense is better.


Really, really, really good TEs are either easily the best receiver on their team (Gates, Winslow and Gonzo), or else or really high powered offenses (Witten last year, or Dallas Clark). Scheffler is in neither situation, nor is VD. Scheff may be better, and I hope he is, but both have a similar ceiling from my perspective, so I dont see a major points difference in fantasy terms if they both play 16 games. I wouldnt care which I had if I were drafting with a 'take a TE after most other owners had' strategy.
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Re: Martz and V. Davis

Postby stomperrob » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:54 pm

Big talk - can he back it up on the field???

49ers notes: Tight end warns defenses
THEY HAVE 'NO CHANCE AT ALL"
Daniel Brown Mercury News
Article Launched: 08/04/2008 07:10:21 PM PDT


NAPA — Two weeks into training camp, Vernon Davis' confidence is in mid-season form.

After testing his skills against the Raiders on Monday, the 49ers tight end went so far as to offer advice to future defensive coordinators.

"If they try to stick a safety or a linebacker on me, I'm going to run right by them,'' Davis said. "Ever since I've been here, I've been running by guys."

Asked how he would game-plan against himself, Davis said he would assign the fastest cornerback on the roster.

The Raiders tried using safety Gibril Wilson at times Monday.

"They had no chance. No chance at all,'' Davis said.

con't...



rest of article: http://www.mercurynews.com/49ers/ci_100 ... ck_check=1
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