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Turner to the Falcons

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Re: Turner to the Falcons

Postby treat24 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:18 am

wrpd136 wrote:Turner is a beast in the power scheme.. Atlanta will be very happy with him!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-OGF28Phnw


I think you need to re-watch that clip... he went down on the first solid hit almost every time in that youtube video... it showcased his speed running by defenders and making moves... as far as a power back... the video you posted has him getting tackled by the first guy that gets more than 1 hand on the guy... sometimes the one hand was able to take him down... 8-o
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Re: Turner to the Falcons

Postby biju » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:42 pm

treat24 wrote:
wrpd136 wrote:Turner is a beast in the power scheme.. Atlanta will be very happy with him!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-OGF28Phnw


I think you need to re-watch that clip... he went down on the first solid hit almost every time in that youtube video... it showcased his speed running by defenders and making moves... as far as a power back... the video you posted has him getting tackled by the first guy that gets more than 1 hand on the guy... sometimes the one hand was able to take him down... 8-o


This post made me very interested to check out the specifics.

treat, I generally respect your opinions on these types of issues, I think you need to rewatch that video. Or maybe people see what they want to see, but I specifically watched how many times he went down on first contact.

Number of plays from scrimmage: 17 (there was one kickoff return I didn't include)
Number of times Turner went down on first contact: 5
Number of times he went down on first contact due to leg tackle: 2
Number of times he was caught from behind: 1 (this was also first contact for this play)
Number of times he bounced off D-line and ran for TD: 3
Number of times he was NOT tackled by first contact: 12

I'm not really a Turner fan as I don't have him as a keeper in any leagues and I won't reach for him at where he's likely going to go next year. Furthermore, I have a decent amount of contempt for the Falcons (although I am a Chargers fan). I guess what I'm saying is, I'm about as unbiased as one can be on the issue and I merely wanted to check this statement out.

For the record, I also understand that this is a "highlight" reel and isn't indicative of normal play.

;-D

edit: screwed up his new team name!
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Re: Turner to the Falcons

Postby treat24 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:07 pm

biju wrote:
treat24 wrote:
wrpd136 wrote:Turner is a beast in the power scheme.. Atlanta will be very happy with him!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-OGF28Phnw


I think you need to re-watch that clip... he went down on the first solid hit almost every time in that youtube video... it showcased his speed running by defenders and making moves... as far as a power back... the video you posted has him getting tackled by the first guy that gets more than 1 hand on the guy... sometimes the one hand was able to take him down... 8-o


This post made me very interested to check out the specifics.

treat, I generally respect your opinions on these types of issues, I think you need to rewatch that video. Or maybe people see what they want to see, but I specifically watched how many times he went down on first contact.

Number of plays from scrimmage: 17 (there was one kickoff return I didn't include)
Number of times Turner went down on first contact: 5
Number of times he went down on first contact due to leg tackle: 2
Number of times he was caught from behind: 1 (this was also first contact for this play)
Number of times he bounced off D-line and ran for TD: 3
Number of times he was NOT tackled by first contact: 12

I'm not really a Turner fan as I don't have him as a keeper in any leagues and I won't reach for him at where he's likely going to go next year. Furthermore, I have a decent amount of contempt for the Falcons (although I am a Chargers fan). I guess what I'm saying is, I'm about as unbiased as one can be on the issue and I merely wanted to check this statement out.

For the record, I also understand that this is a "highlight" reel and isn't indicative of normal play.

;-D

edit: screwed up his new team name!


first, i'm a turner owner and actually haven't seen much of him living in MN except the few national SD games... so I wouldn't respect my opinion on him :) but on this video...

I rewatched it a few more times...

I didn't really count everything but I know where the problem is right away from reading your post...I said "first solid hit" ... not "first contact" ...i think that is where the communication problem is... I also said "tackled by the first guy that gets more than 1 hand on the guy" ....... I agree that he broke away from getting an arm on him as his first contact in most of them (apparently 12 by your count)... but they were weak grab attempts... I mean by that, in most of those plays an arm/hand grazed him or barely grabbed him as he ran by. That was his "first contact" ... any RB in the NFL can and SHOULD be able to get away that... but when it was a solid hit, Turner went down. That's what I was talking about. That video didn't show him getting away from anyone after being wrapped up or anything like that. I meant and said "solid hits"... the discussion is about him being a power back for the falcons... i'm talking about a power back getting hit and spinning off or breaking it...

after watching several times, only 3 times did he break an ok tackle attempt, but was tackled almost immediately by help that was right there either because of position or because the original tackler slowed him down... and gained pretty much nothing from it. He had a nice stiff arm in there...

As far as calling him a power back... we can assume by the way we've seen so far he might be ok... his size and running style leads me to believe it... but that vid didn't really do it for me... any NFL quality back should be able to break past an arm touching you as you run by... that's not really first contact in my eyes... it is statistically I guess... but i want to see him get hit and keep going... he did bounce off the line twice nicely i guess...

I agree, it's a highlight reel... take what you will from it...

I do love how he always seems to be going forward for extra yards when tackled... very nice...

if ATL can open holes like SD he could be in business :)


it's all cool, just a slight communication error... your count is fine... it's probably what the actual "first contact" was... etc... nice work on the research... it's just not what I meant with my post... my post was regarding actually getting hit, not being grazed and slightly grabbed... I don't think the clip showed that he would be a "beast" in a "power scheme" ... although he might very well be...
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Re: Turner to the Falcons

Postby deerayfan072 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:33 pm

Here is a power back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1q1gQc4 ... re=related

Treat you may remember the play at 1:30

B-) B-) B-)
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Re: Turner to the Falcons

Postby treat24 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:37 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:Here is a power back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1q1gQc4 ... re=related

Treat you may remember the play at 1:30

B-) B-) B-)


When I clicked and saw it was Alstott I knew immediately... that's power ;-D B-) :-)

man that boy could drive...
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Re: Turner to the Falcons

Postby biju » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:29 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:Here is a power back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1q1gQc4 ... re=related

Treat you may remember the play at 1:30

B-) B-) B-)


Yeah, now that guy can certainly be called a BEAST.

treat, I see the semantics difference and get what you were saying now. Fair enough for me by all means. One thing to think about though (and I have no evidence, even circumstantial) is that maybe those guys couldn't get good grasps on him *because* of his speed, which is why there were so many weak arm tackles.

Eh, just a way for me to pass a little bit of time at work. ;-D
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Re: Turner to the Falcons

Postby knapplc » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:35 pm

Wrangor wrote:A couple of thoughts:

1. New Head Coach in Atlanta came from where? Jacksonville Jaguars
2. Jacksonville Jaguars employed a power running game using two backs (Taylor and Jones-Druw)
3. Taylor was a traditional speed back for much of his career who was rejuvenated with the Jags new tandem running scheme
4. Norwood and Taylor grade out as similar style backs (upright running with game breaking ability)
5. Turner and Jones-Druw grade out as similar style backs (power bowling balls with great quickness for their size)

I think a more logical breakdown of this running situation will be:
- Falcons run the ball 30+ times a game to control clock and keep their defense off the field
- Turner sees 15-20 carries a game
- Norwood sees 10-15 carries a game

Turner will probably rush for around 1100 yards with 8-12 tds
Norwood will probably rush for around 900 yards with 5-7 tds

Combined they will form a terrible two-some for the Falcons. I think this trade was less an implication of distrust on Norwood's ability as it was to fill the system that the Head Coach likes to implement. If you were a defensive coordinator and you like to run a 3-4 system it wouldn't be an implication of your current 3 linebackers if you signed a 4th linebacker...it would just be that you were implementing the system that you were comfortable with.

Signing Turner was a goodbye to Warrick Dunn - Norwood will still have value, but it will be it will be as a solid RB3 with RB2 upside.


Good post. And remember that Atlanta does very well in the run game - what, first in the NFL last year? Isn't that right?

I think this is a good deal for Turner owners. If you're not a Turner owner, you should be.
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Re: Turner to the Falcons

Postby treat24 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:43 pm

biju wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:Here is a power back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1q1gQc4 ... re=related

Treat you may remember the play at 1:30

B-) B-) B-)


Yeah, now that guy can certainly be called a BEAST.

treat, I see the semantics difference and get what you were saying now. Fair enough for me by all means. One thing to think about though (and I have no evidence, even circumstantial) is that maybe those guys couldn't get good grasps on him *because* of his speed, which is why there were so many weak arm tackles.

Eh, just a way for me to pass a little bit of time at work. ;-D


yeah, i have no problem with his speed argument... the poster said he would be a beast in a power scheme when posting that clip... i agree with you about the speed. After some thought, it might also go with the "power" argument... maybe he is just such a powerful runner that they couldn't get a great hold on him... I didn't think of that earlier either...

either way... this thread is some good discussion...
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Re: Turner to the Falcons

Postby BlueBandit24 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:48 pm

knapplc wrote:Good post. And remember that Atlanta does very well in the run game - what, first in the NFL last year? Isn't that right?

I think this is a good deal for Turner owners. If you're not a Turner owner, you should be.


Atlanta was 26th in the NFL at 95/game last season. They were near the top a couple years before that, but those numbers were insulated by Vick scrambling everywhere. I think the new regime/philosophy along with some additions on the O-Line will help them improve in the run game, but I do not see them getting back to the top of the league anytime soon.
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Re: Turner to the Falcons

Postby treat24 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:49 pm

knapplc wrote:
Wrangor wrote:A couple of thoughts:

1. New Head Coach in Atlanta came from where? Jacksonville Jaguars
2. Jacksonville Jaguars employed a power running game using two backs (Taylor and Jones-Druw)
3. Taylor was a traditional speed back for much of his career who was rejuvenated with the Jags new tandem running scheme
4. Norwood and Taylor grade out as similar style backs (upright running with game breaking ability)
5. Turner and Jones-Druw grade out as similar style backs (power bowling balls with great quickness for their size)

I think a more logical breakdown of this running situation will be:
- Falcons run the ball 30+ times a game to control clock and keep their defense off the field
- Turner sees 15-20 carries a game
- Norwood sees 10-15 carries a game

Turner will probably rush for around 1100 yards with 8-12 tds
Norwood will probably rush for around 900 yards with 5-7 tds

Combined they will form a terrible two-some for the Falcons. I think this trade was less an implication of distrust on Norwood's ability as it was to fill the system that the Head Coach likes to implement. If you were a defensive coordinator and you like to run a 3-4 system it wouldn't be an implication of your current 3 linebackers if you signed a 4th linebacker...it would just be that you were implementing the system that you were comfortable with.

Signing Turner was a goodbye to Warrick Dunn - Norwood will still have value, but it will be it will be as a solid RB3 with RB2 upside.


Good post. And remember that Atlanta does very well in the run game - what, first in the NFL last year? Isn't that right?

I think this is a good deal for Turner owners. If you're not a Turner owner, you should be.


they were first in the NFL 2 years ago... last year ATL had 1520... pretty sure AD had over 1300 and Chester had quite a few... so there's no way they led last year. They were #1 that year because Vick added a little over 1000... (edit... my vikes were #1 last year ... 164.6 ypg)

I think you could be right on those numbers... but the ATL offense has to get better. They scored 25 offensive TDs last year and you are giving the new RBs 12-19 next year... they only had 7 rushing last year and 18 passing. I don't know if a new head coach and RB are gonna add quite that much without some more help in many areas. Not a lot of people will be shaking in their boots about Chris Redman... At least not yet. I think the RB game will be more like you are saying though... ;-D
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