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Re: NEW Dolphins Draft day rumor

Postby joelamosobadiah » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:44 pm

smackthefirst wrote:
joelamosobadiah wrote:
smackthefirst wrote:I have actually thought about something like this the past few years with the insane amount of money that the #1 pick gets. I think it would be a great idea. Get the top 4 or 5 guys together in one room with their agents if they want and say this is the deal and this is what we're offering. And spell it out for them it terms of we're taking the first one of you who agrees to this, whoever agrees will be the #1 pick and everyone else will receive less money because at best you would be the #2 pick, and we don't care what the #1 pick last year made because this isn't last year. Then split them all up and put one team executive with each one and say do you want the deal or not? I highly doubt there would be a "united front" and all of them would pass on the deal. Someone would break and agree and the others would all know that someone agreeing was likely to happen. Agents might hate the idea, but it would work and it is business 101.

I'd love to see a team actually do it though. I'm sure the NFLPA would step in and try to counter the process if it were to happen.


Check three posts up.


Haha. No I saw that Joel. That's actually what lead me to post what I was referring to. It was more a comment on the fact that I had thought about something similar during the last two drafts. I was just trying to say what I had thought about and where there are slight differences between what I thought would occur and what onnestabe posted even though the underlying concept is identical. Heck, I might have even posted eluding to it somewhere on the forums last year or the year before but I'm just too lazy to go look for it.

Oh, and it's good to be back. I've been horribly busy lately and have neglected the Cafe way too much recently.


OK, I see it now. :-b

Good to see you back around here man. ;-D
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Re: NEW Dolphins Draft day rumor

Postby biju » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:57 am

Gnu314 wrote:Theres a reason this won't work... Different positions require different payment. Look what the Texans did with Mario Williams, Reggie Bush ended up having a bigger contract with the Saints than Williams did. If one of the players was a QB, theres no way he'ed agree to the same terms as a DE prospect. Its a nice idea though.


I was thinking the same thing, but while draft position and salary don't necessarily correlate that doesn't mean the strategy can't work for the Dolphins. For that matter this would be a simple way to create a "standard" contract for top rookies and help push contracts back down to a reasonable level.

As for guarantying the full contracts, I would very much like to see that happen, but what happens when a player doesn't honor his part of the contract? There are always holdouts and little will stop that. So if players aren't going to hold up their end of the bargain it's tough for teams to be required to do the same either. I think each individual team just needs to make a proper policy to deal with this and either pick the players accordingly or move on.

Also there is no way the NFL should remove the salary cap. I DO NOT WANT the NFL to turn into the MLB where large market teams consistently get to buy their talent and small market teams are there merely to round out the divisions.

Ultimately the owners just need to stop being bullied around by the player agents. If one team can't sign a top end player for the "appropriate" price the other owners need to simply follow suit and blackball that player. They award the team with another pick in the next year's draft and the other teams simply blackball that player. Trust me, if it happens just once it will never happen again. The NFLPA might disagree with it and ultimately strike, but importance needs to be placed back upon performance and not merely potential.
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Re: NEW Dolphins Draft day rumor

Postby onnestabe » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:18 am

Gnu314 wrote:Theres a reason this won't work... Different positions require different payment. Look what the Texans did with Mario Williams, Reggie Bush ended up having a bigger contract with the Saints than Williams did. If one of the players was a QB, theres no way he'ed agree to the same terms as a DE prospect. Its a nice idea though.


Differences in pay based on football position have little or nothing to do with rookie contracts at the top of the draft. Reggie Bush's contract wasn't bigger than Williams' deal. Willams' was 6 years, $54mil, and Bush got 6 years, $52.5mil. Also, even if Bush had gotten more money than Williams, that would have little or nothing to do with how much RBs get paid compared to DEs, because DEs get paid more. The franchise tag, which is based on average player salaries at the position, for DEs is almost $9mil, compared to $6.5mil for RBs. If anything, Bush should have gotten significantly less than Williams based on positional pay (the $1.5mil difference is a pretty small difference over 6 years). Also consider that Bush still got a larger contract than Vince Young (selected one pick after him), and the franchise number for QBs is $10.7mil, so if positional pay was relevant in the draft, Vince Young's position of QB would have outweighed the fact that Bush got picked ahead of him, and Young should have gotten a larger deal.

I did think a little about the fact that they have different positions, but only in the sense that you would have to use different stats for incentive pay measurement. My take was that you maybe have different contracts, but all roughly equivalent in terms of value. What I mean is that the base salaries and potential pay is the same, but you would clearly have to structure the incentives differently for an OT than you would for a LB, DT or DE, and all contracts have incentive pay at this point. The only way to avoid it is to base the incentives off of percentage of team snaps played, games started, offseason attendance, etc. You couldn't really base them on on-field performance unless you have different contracts for each of them.
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Re: NEW Dolphins Draft day rumor

Postby LoveBoatCaptain » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:09 pm

Well, the latest rumor is that Jake Long doesn't want to play for the Dolphins...
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Re: NEW Dolphins Draft day rumor

Postby Cowboys 4 life » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:12 pm

LoveBoatCaptain wrote:Well, the latest rumor is that Jake Long doesn't want to play for the Dolphins...


They have so many needs it doesn't really matter.

I like either of the Long's for Miami. They are still a few years away from competing.
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Re: NEW Dolphins Draft day rumor

Postby stomperrob » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:28 am

Today's paper:

Dolphins now talking defense in draft, may snub U-M tackle Jake Long
FREE PRESS STAFF AND NEWS SERVICES • April 18, 2008


DAVIE, Fla. — Perhaps it was a slip of the tongue, or subterfuge scripted by Bill Parcells.

Or maybe Miami Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland inadvertently tipped his hand regarding the team’s plan with the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft.

At a news conference Thursday to discuss the draft, Ireland said he wouldn’t talk about the Dolphins’ strategy, and he didn’t discuss specific players. But one comment he made was surprisingly specific.

“Of course I want guys that have great upside,” Ireland said. “This is the first pick in the draft. This guy is going to be — you hope that he’s a pillar of your defense for a long time.”

cont'd...


Rest of article: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti ... 17090/1054
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Re: NEW Dolphins Draft day rumor

Postby flotsamnjetsam » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:44 pm

stomperrob wrote:Today's paper:

Dolphins now talking defense in draft, may snub U-M tackle Jake Long
FREE PRESS STAFF AND NEWS SERVICES • April 18, 2008


DAVIE, Fla. — Perhaps it was a slip of the tongue, or subterfuge scripted by Bill Parcells.

Or maybe Miami Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland inadvertently tipped his hand regarding the team’s plan with the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft.

At a news conference Thursday to discuss the draft, Ireland said he wouldn’t talk about the Dolphins’ strategy, and he didn’t discuss specific players. But one comment he made was surprisingly specific.

“Of course I want guys that have great upside,” Ireland said. “This is the first pick in the draft. This guy is going to be — you hope that he’s a pillar of your defense for a long time.”

cont'd...


Rest of article: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti ... 17090/1054




I read about that on si.com. I'd bet anything that Parcells had Ireland say that on purpose just to throw everyone off and make everyone wonder what they're doing. :-?
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Re: NEW Dolphins Draft day rumor

Postby onnestabe » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:57 pm

stomperrob wrote:Today's paper:

[size=150]“Of course I want guys that have great upside,” Ireland said. “This is the first pick in the draft. This guy is going to be — you hope that he’s a pillar of your defense for a long time.”

cont'd...


Rest of article: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti ... 17090/1054


Yeah, I saw something about that earlier today. I don't know that it is surprising that they might be going defense. I think almost every mock I have seen has them taking a defensive player. I know all the mockers aren't necessarily right, but this draft doesn't have a lot of offensive talent at the top of this draft except for Long, and a lot of people think he's a right tackle, and you just don't take right tackles that high, no matter how good they are.

If anything this might just be a smokescreen to show others in the league that they have a guy they like that they want to take that high without actually saying which guy that might be. If they other teams at the top think you are willing to take their guy, they would be more willing to trade up with you to get him.

I don't think you can really trust anything you hear this close to the draft. That's why this time of year has become so interesting, even though in all likelihood, most of the players that get selected in the draft won't be in the league after a year, and even less will still be with the team that drafted them in the first place. It's about seeing how well your team plays the "draft game".
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Re: NEW Dolphins Draft day rumor

Postby steelerfan513 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:40 pm

biju wrote:Also there is no way the NFL should remove the salary cap. I DO NOT WANT the NFL to turn into the MLB where large market teams consistently get to buy their talent and small market teams are there merely to round out the divisions.


I agree. In no league should a single player be paid more than the entire roster of another team.
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Re: NEW Dolphins Draft day rumor

Postby flotsamnjetsam » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:26 am

flotsamnjetsam wrote:That would be a total joke...but I understand why they (or any team) might do this.

The NFL is the best, most popular sport out there, but paying rookies who never played a down in the NFL that kind of money is just stupid. I know, I know...the average career is only 5 years so the players have to get all they can when they can. But how does it make sense to pay any rookie more than every other guy on the entire team...when he could turn out to be Ryan Leaf? :-? :-t


The NBA does it right. Or at least they used to...I haven't been into the NBA in a few years. What they do (or used to do) is have every draft position slotted with a predetermined salary. It's a 3 year contract. The top picks will be millionaires, but not crazy insane $$ like the NFL. If you're awesome at the end of your 3 year contract (or even before), you're going to get the HUGE bump in salary that...and here's a novel idea...goes with the talent of the player!! If you are just OK, you'll get a medium sized contract after the 3 years, & if you suck, you'll either be out of the league or warming the bench making somewhere towards the minimum salary.


THAT'S what the NFL should do...or something similar. That's just insane that any team would be forced to think about not picking in their slot because of $$$. :-t :-t :-t :-t




I think Roger Goodell saw my post. ;-7 He was on Mike & Mike yesterday and was talking about the NFL going to a rookie salary structure like the NBA. You know the players union will fight it tooth & nail, but the same thing happened when David Stern proposed the current NBA rookie salary structure in the 90's. It obviously works and I really hope the NFL does this sooner rather than later. ;-D


Here's a good article on the subject:


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=d ... &type=lgns


article wrote:Rookie salaries out of this league
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
6 hours, 34 minutes ago

NEW YORK – Mike Conley Sr., former Olympic gold medalist turned professional sports agent, considered the question and laughed at the possibility. What if the NBA, like the NFL, allowed rookies to negotiate their initial contract, rather than slotting them into predetermined salary ranges?

Conley represents Arkansas running back Darren McFadden, a likely top five pick in Saturday’s NFL draft. He is also the agent for the No. 1 pick in the 2007 NBA draft, 7-footer Greg Oden.

What could Oden have gotten from the Portland Trailblazers?

“Max money,” Conley laughed, referencing the approximate $85 million limit of a seven-year NBA contract. “Greg Oden is a max player, of course.”

The idea that a player who has never played a minute in the NBA would be able to demand the maximum amount of money and essentially cripple the options of the team drafting him is why NBA commissioner David Stern fought ferociously against his strong union for the rookie salary structure in the late 1990s.

To Stern, having unproven rookies with such immense salary power is no way to operate a league; is unfair to veterans; and makes things such as Oden’s knee injury that cost him his rookie season exponentially more troublesome. Since Oden only earned about $3.9 million of a three-year, $12.5 million deal, it was less devastating.

No one agrees more than NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who wistfully comments on how the NFL needs to copy the NBA’s cost controls.

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It’s a rare reversal of fortune. For the most part, the NBA is considered to have the stronger union; the NFL is where the control is with the league. But on this one undeniable issue, Stern has what Goodell only possesses in his dreams.

Free to negotiate essentially any salary he wants (technically, there is a rookie salary cap, but it is easy to work around), Jake Long of Michigan agreed this week to a five-year, $57.5 million deal with the Miami Dolphins. Miami will make him the first choice in the draft. In doing so, Long became the highest paid offensive tackle in football before a single practice.

“It was mind boggling,” Long admitted.

Long is a tremendous prospect and may prove to be worth every penny of that deal – it’s not like it’s going to break the Dolphins billionaire co-owner Wayne Huizenga. But is that any way to run a league?

A year ago, the Oakland Raiders signed top pick JaMarcus Russell to a six-year, $61 million deal, $29 million of which was guaranteed. The two sides only came to agreement after Russell held out until Sept. 12, essentially ending any chance of the quarterback being a meaningful contributor as a rookie. He completed just 36 passes in four games.

In contrast, the NBA, by controlling rookie salaries for at least three seasons, has set up a sort of in-house developmental league. A team has plenty of time to not only analyze ability, but even improve it before making the decision on a major deal.

The NFL has no such luxury, making the top of the draft the ultimate high stakes crap shoot.

“A salary structure definitely makes sense from a league standpoint and from a team standpoint,” Conley said. “From an athlete perspective, we’ll keep it.”

The NFLPA has vowed to fight any rookie salary structure, but Goodell has already begun framing the debate not as an owners vs. players clash, but a veterans vs. rookies (or future rookies) battle. As owners swim in revenue, Goodell can’t cry poverty. He can argue fairness.

“I think it’s important to veteran players personally,” Goodell said at last month’s league meetings. “As a veteran player, you’ve proven your performance on an NFL field and that should be rewarded.

“When you see players come in (who) have not played in the NFL and it’s unclear as to whether they will be able to play at a certain level in the NFL, I think that’s a fair point.


No. 1 pick Jake Long talks wit…

Getty Images - Apr 24, 4:55 pm EDT
“It’s not necessarily saving dollars but putting dollars to the players who should get them.”

If Goodell can get this one done, he will have finished a virtual clean sweep against the NFLPA.

“I personally think it’ll happen at some point,” Conley said. “It is a matter of when the right timing is.”

For the most part, even the soon-to-be rookies who benefit from the current plan know it is essentially ridiculous. They know it doesn’t make sense, but they are rather pleased with their fortuitous timing.

“I’ll take it,” laughed Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan. “I see both sides of the argument but I’m going to take the (current) argument now.

“Maybe in 20 or 30 years and I’m a GM, I’ll take the other side.”

Roger Goodell isn’t waiting that long to fight this fight.
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