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Re: Tarvaris Jackson

Postby treat24 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:56 am

Consistency is the key mooch. He managed games well for a 7-1 stretch. If by manage I mean hand it off to AD and don't make turnovers in the passing game and don't get sacked. He had several games where he did just enough and didn't make many mistakes, but he needs to get much much better for a title shot. I've said it many times. Speed (he is currently running a 4.5 40), Mobility, arm strength, etc... the talent has always been there physically. He is just not a thinking QB. I think you need that aspect to win a superbowl. He showed a large amount of improvement from 2 years ago to last year and over the course of the season last year. If his 07 to 08 jump is as big as his 06 to 07 jump... the vikes will be more than fine.

He really needs to work on those INTs... it's the "non-thinking" aspect of his game. Most games he is ok... he had 12 ints last year... he had a 3 INT game (that we won somehow...) and a 2 INT game to end the season and a 4 INT game at the start. He threw 3 picks in his other 11 games when he was managing games well in the middle of the season. The middle of the season TJax is the guy I would like to see come back and come back improved. He was 7-1 in the middle 10 games (missed 2 games from injury which the vikes lost)
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Re: Tarvaris Jackson

Postby moochman » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:53 am

I hate that phrase 'managed games'. It's coach speak for try not to lose games. All that it accomplishes is keeping the other team in the game. I also think that over coaching in this league is one of the reasons why we both have QBs that step in much quicker than they use to, but also never seem to develop. I don't think it is as much of a 3 year learning process that's missing as it may be learning limitations in this league. A QB can only learn how to beat a D by trying to, and often failing at first. I don't think managing a game gives young QBs the chance to learn what they can and cannot do, and so many never reach potential.
I don't think you learn as much when you coach is preaching throw the safe 5 yard pass and we'll hope the receiver breaks some tackles.
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Re: Tarvaris Jackson

Postby treat24 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:45 am

moochman wrote:I hate that phrase 'managed games'. It's coach speak for try not to lose games. All that it accomplishes is keeping the other team in the game. I also think that over coaching in this league is one of the reasons why we both have QBs that step in much quicker than they use to, but also never seem to develop. I don't think it is as much of a 3 year learning process that's missing as it may be learning limitations in this league. A QB can only learn how to beat a D by trying to, and often failing at first. I don't think managing a game gives young QBs the chance to learn what they can and cannot do, and so many never reach potential.
I don't think you learn as much when you coach is preaching throw the safe 5 yard pass and we'll hope the receiver breaks some tackles.


I both agree and disagree here. With our D and run game and o-line... we simply need a Dilfer/Brad Johnson type super bowl winning QB to "manage" the game. I agree that you don't learn that way and you learn from taking chances and testing D's I think we will see more of this from TJax this year. Berrian gives him that beat the D option. We'll see. I'm ok with the managed games phrase, it applies, but it doesn't make a QB good or great. It does not help them learn. I'm just saying that some teams have so much around them, that they are ok with a game manager.
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Re: Tarvaris Jackson

Postby Azrael » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:38 am

If you really look into that stretch that Jackson played where the Vikings were 7-1 you will see that he really didn't manage very many games well at all.

W @Chi - 9 for 23 (39%) for 136yds and 1 TD, 1 sack - Peterson goes for 220+ and 3 scores
L @ Dal - 6 for 18 (32%) for 72yds, 3 sacks
W SD - 6 for 12 (50%) for 63yds - Peterson sets rushing record (295 and 3 scores)
W Oak - 17 for 22 (77%) for 171yds and 1 INT, 3 sacks - C. Taylor 164 yards and 3 scores
W @ NYG - 10 for 12 (83%) for 120 yds 1 TD, 4 sacks - Defense scores 3 times
W Det - 18 for 24 (75%) for 204, 2TDs, 1INT, 1 sack
W @ SF - 16 for 25 (64%) for 163 and 1 TD
W Chi - 18 for 29 (62%)for 249 and 3 INT, 2 sacks

I would say he managed the game well for maybe Oakland through the SF game but 3 of those teams were doormats...both Chicago games and when they played Dallas and SD he did not play well at all.
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Re: Tarvaris Jackson

Postby treat24 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:57 am

Azrael wrote:If you really look into that stretch that Jackson played where the Vikings were 7-1 you will see that he really didn't manage very many games well at all.

W @Chi - 9 for 23 (39%) for 136yds and 1 TD, 1 sack - Peterson goes for 220+ and 3 scores
L @ Dal - 6 for 18 (32%) for 72yds, 3 sacks
W SD - 6 for 12 (50%) for 63yds - Peterson sets rushing record (295 and 3 scores)
W Oak - 17 for 22 (77%) for 171yds and 1 INT, 3 sacks - C. Taylor 164 yards and 3 scores
W @ NYG - 10 for 12 (83%) for 120 yds 1 TD, 4 sacks - Defense scores 3 times
W Det - 18 for 24 (75%) for 204, 2TDs, 1INT, 1 sack
W @ SF - 16 for 25 (64%) for 163 and 1 TD
W Chi - 18 for 29 (62%)for 249 and 3 INT, 2 sacks

I would say he managed the game well for maybe Oakland through the SF game but 3 of those teams were doormats...both Chicago games and when they played Dallas and SD he did not play well at all.



Oakland through San Fran... so you are saying he managed well for a 5 game win streak? that's more wins than a lot of teams. Like i said, he's not great, not even good. He won't learn to be good or great by just managing... He needs to improve. You made a comment "They will challenge for that division on the sheer strength of their D and rushing game but you want to see if Jackson can win some games against good teams stuffing 8 in the box." Well you just proved it to yourself... He won 5 games with 8-9 in the box... One of them the Superbowl champs. He also didn't take a sack or throw a pick against SD. He let the run game and D carry us. This is fine. Just win baby. That is all that matters. You put little blurbs about the running game and defense helping win those games... which is EXACTLY what I said... So your post means nothing to me except for telling me exactly what I have said and showing me exactly what I already know. You brought nothing to the table there except for quoting NFL.com's stats. Congrats ;-D We get it, we are all saying it, he is not a good quarterback. He is not a thinking QB which leads him to make mistakes like not getting rid of the ball when he should (sacks and INTs). He needs to improve on that to lead us anywhere, which also has been said. Before that Chicago game he went 6-1 with only 4 picks. TJax ain't good, but he managed... running game and defense won every game for us last year. TJax won zero. but he managed not to screw it up for a stretch. That was my point. Thanks for quoting NFL.com and telling me things that have been said in this thread and elsewhere about tjax... I couldn't type in the 7 characters and couple clicks to find his stats on my own or read this thread :-°
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Re: Tarvaris Jackson

Postby Azrael » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:40 pm

You said he "managed games well" for the 7-1 stretch when in reality he didn't really, which is why I displayed the stats from that stretch of games. I said he "possibly" managed the game well, looking at the stats for 4 games there. You tried to stretch it to 5.

Manage the game well against SD? I think not. 6-12 passing before injured, has 5 attempts to pick up first downs on 3rd down and fails 4 times. That's not helping your team. It was all AP that game.

Oakland? 2 drives end in Jackson turnovers. 4 attempts to convert 3rd downs and fails 3 times. Doesn't complete a pass down the field all game. 2 completions greater than 11 yards (both 15 yards).

NYG, Det, and SF I will give you. Then he has a horrible game against Chicago.

Washington - 2 picks, 3 for 7 on 3rd down attempts. No passes completed down field all game. 2 completions greater than 11 yards (13 and 14)

Den - 51% completion, 3 sacks, 2 fumbles (1 lost in overtime that cost game), 5 for 12 on 3rd down attempts...does throw 2 TD passes, but this was not a largely well played game.

I'll give 3 games in the 8 game stretch he actually "managed well" in the 7-1 game stretch that you alluded to. It's more of an illusion than what the record bears out once you look inside the games. And then when he had to beat a playoff team he couldn't. And when he needed to win a game against a 6-9 team to get in the playoffs he couldn't.

This guy is not an NFL QB. To the detriment of the Vikes, because they are so good running and on defense it may actually cause him to stick around longer than he should, i.e. those aspects of the team will make him look better than he is but when all the chips are down it will be that deficiency at QB that causes them to not get over the hump.
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Re: Tarvaris Jackson

Postby footballsimp » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:24 pm

He wasn't even a good college QB. I saw him when he was at Arkansas. he couldnt cut the mustard there and we really didnt ask too much of him.

We just needed someone to manage the games there. We were a strong running team. He blew
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