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2nd Amendment

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Re: 2nd Amendment

Postby deerayfan072 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:24 pm

If anyone is interested in a legal article written about the second amendment, here is a link to my buddies article:

http://randazza.wordpress.com/2007/11/24/guest-blawg-jonathon-blevins-on-the-second-amendment/

pretty good ;-D
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Postby knapplc » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:30 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:The reason for the second amendment if you do look at historical significance goes back to the US freeing themselves from Britain. Part of the US has always been your right to protect yourself from the government, by force if need be. They allowed people to have weapons just in case they needed to rise up against the government.

That's the history lesson part of this story, but the reality is that a "well-armed militia" is simply not relevant today, any more than the founding fathers' desire NOT to have a standing army. We flouted that piece of their wisdom, but the idea that we all need guns, OH NOES!!! Never take that away from me!!!

We pick and choose which parts of the constitution we want to follow, plain and simple.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Postby deerayfan072 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:37 pm

knapplc wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:The reason for the second amendment if you do look at historical significance goes back to the US freeing themselves from Britain. Part of the US has always been your right to protect yourself from the government, by force if need be. They allowed people to have weapons just in case they needed to rise up against the government.

That's the history lesson part of this story, but the reality is that a "well-armed militia" is simply not relevant today, any more than the founding fathers' desire NOT to have a standing army. We flouted that piece of their wisdom, but the idea that we all need guns, OH NOES!!! Never take that away from me!!!

We pick and choose which parts of the constitution we want to follow, plain and simple.


That is because there are different justices in the power during different times. The Warren court was completely different than the court before it. The law is an every changing thing that is subject to human interpretation. As much as we would like to think otherwise, humans take their own thoughts, prejudices, feelings, and beliefs into account when making decisions about the law. They saw the law is blind, but it truly is up to the people who are enforcing and interpreting the law and they are not blind.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Postby knapplc » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:45 pm

Believe me, I know all about the fluid nature of the law. But as you'll agree, the necessities facing the fledgling country when the Second Amendment was written most certainly do not apply now, and the necessity Joe off the street owning a gun is not the same necessity today as it was then.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Postby Nfl Fan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:41 pm

knapplc wrote:and the necessity Joe off the street owning a gun is not the same necessity today as it was then.



... until 'Joe-off-the-crack-pipe' shows up with his...

;-)
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Postby Cowboys 4 life » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:50 pm

I was wondering: If they take away our guns can we use swords, axes, or Bows and Arrows to defend ourseves and family against the criminal who bought a gun off of the black market with the intent on robbing me or killing me if I don't comply? :-?
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Postby Nfl Fan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:31 pm

Cowboys 4 life wrote:I was wondering: If they take away our guns can we use swords, axes, or Bows and Arrows to defend ourseves and family against the criminal who bought a gun off of the black market with the intent on robbing me or killing me if I don't comply? :-?


My personal non-gun preference...


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Re: 2nd Amendment

Postby houstonherdfan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:15 pm

BGbootha wrote:The second amendment is nothing more than a relic left in our constitution, it is historically mis used and misrepresented. Our forefathers did not write the second amendment in a world view that exists today.

It drives me crazy that we look at the constitution without realizing the historical tenants in which it was written.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


I am not sure private gun owners make up a well regulated militia, nor are they necessary to the security of a free state.

But hey, it our constitution and we can't change that right?!? We just need to pick and choose which part of the sentences work for us.

Now that I think about it....how about this....you want to own a gun fine!!! Thats your right thanks to the constitution...but now instead of a background check and all that jazz, you first have to take your gun join a militia and head over to Iraq for a year, when you get back you can keep your gun.


I'm actually fine with that and all of the people I personally know who believe in the right to own a gun would agree. I have been in war zones in the military when I was young. Maybe thats what we need to do. If you want the right to own a gun you must complete a hitch in one of the branches of our military. If that was the caese the gun owners would darn sure know how to properly handle a gun.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Postby houstonherdfan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:25 pm

treat24 wrote:
houstonherdfan wrote:
treat24]

once again, you need to reread his statement. He is not saying his state is less safe. Not once, nowhere... you keep adding that out of nowhere. He is saying this effects the safety of all communities. You disagree with this, which is cool... but he says nothing about it making his state less safe.[/quote]

"Today, President Bush's radical Supreme Court justices put rigid ideology ahead of the safety of communities in New Jersey and across the country. This decision illustrates why I have strongly opposed extremist judicial nominees and will continue to do so in the future." — Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J.

how is it that the part of the statement above I bolded makes you believe that he said nothing about it making his state less safe. Me thinks you misread his quote.

He specifically mentions his state and goes on to generalize to the rest of the country.[/quote]

Firstly, you failed to bold "and across the country." Which means that he is talking about the whole country including his state. And you said [quote="hhf wrote:
The law has not changed in his home state how could it have made his state less safe?"
What he is saying is that his state, and all states could be safer, but the justices put rigid ideology ahead of safety. He is not saying that this decision has made his state less safe than it currently is, rather not as safe as it could be. I am reading his quote correctly. ;-D

All of this is just semantics about what this Senator said about it, the main point is that you disagree. He thinks this would have made the country safer. You think upholding the 2nd keeps the country safer. What is more important than this discussion of what this senator is saying is the decision itself, where the votes came from, and their reasoning. ;-D


You are 100% it is just semantics. However, I responded to your original post because you said:


"He never said it made his state less safe."

Well he did directly say it made his state less safe. No maybe he meant something else entirely and probalby did as I read it towards my feelings on the matter. However he did say what you stated that he did not. That was my only point in responding to your post and my reason for bolding what I did. Not to change his meaning but to respond your statement.


AS far as the whole deal with private ownership of guns making the country less safe, I bet nobody will come to Joe Horn's Pasadena neighborhood any more to break in houses and steal people's hard earned posessions.
You could think of government workers like teenagers. You pay them an allowance, but do you get any work out them? They eat the food, put their feet on the furniture and complain loudly whenever they are unhappy.
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Re: 2nd Amendment

Postby houstonherdfan » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:30 pm

Nfl Fan wrote:
knapplc wrote:and the necessity Joe off the street owning a gun is not the same necessity today as it was then.



... until 'Joe-off-the-crack-pipe' shows up with his...

;-)



DING DING DING!!!!!!! We have a winner.

If we were like England and there was no access to the criminals having guns, then I would be less inclined to be so adamant about private gun ownership. But if the criminals have guns we better make sure we can defend ourselves when this country goes completely to crap. It is heading into that direction quickly.
You could think of government workers like teenagers. You pay them an allowance, but do you get any work out them? They eat the food, put their feet on the furniture and complain loudly whenever they are unhappy.
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