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Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby LS2throwed » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:52 pm

Free Bagel wrote:
moochman wrote:Are you playing your championship game on week 17? If so stop.
If you are not and you have lost becuase your stud sat week 16, the onus is still on you. There are elements of strategy needed for the end of a season, especially with championship implications. You should have been thinking in advance and handcuffed or traded for another quality replacement who has a soft game that week.


There is much more to it than simple handcuffs and whatnot, great players can just have poor games. You can still be fielding the best team during championship week and lose. In a points league, LT is going to be a top 3 player for you over the course of the season. In a H2H league he is unlikely to finish in the top 3 during championship week, just because there is so much variation.

Someone fielding LT and AD (last year's two best PPG scorers I believe) during week 16 last year probably would have been outscored by the opposing team's RBs. Someone fielding Westbrook and AD (two of the top 3) would have likely been annhilated by the opposing team's RBs.




But that said owner still has a decision to make of who to start, does he feel like the team will rest its starters, or is it a tough matchup...The guy who won my championship went with backs like Stecker and Watson in the championship game, he had better options on his bench but he still used a little strategy and it worked out fine...Sometimes you get burned in H2H by benching the wrong guy, then other games you can win because your opponent benched the wrong guy, it goes both way and it seems like there is more strategy involved figuring out who to start and looking at matchups.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby kingmike74 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:34 pm

I am convinced to stay with H2H.

It seems from the posts that if the only concern was to win money, roto might be better but the fun comes from H2H. I like the money but LOVE the fun.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby spodog » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:29 pm

We have guys in our league that have developed serious rivalries over the years, and live for their 1 or 2 H2H matchups each year. Those games are bigger than playoff games for them. Some of these games even have their own name associated with them.

Long time owners carefully watch their CAREER h2h record against key rivals and care about it as much or more than how they did this past week.

Those things don't happen in a points only format or a ROTO format.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby FantasyFootballRocks » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:27 pm

If you lose in the championship game then you obvisouly don't have the best team. If you applied your logic to the real nfl then the Patriots didn't even need to play the championship game because they were by far the best team over the course of the season even if they would lose the championship game. Also, roto leagues are less accurate at showing who the best team is because a player could score a million points one week and get zeros the rest of the year and still win. One lucky week means you have the best team? On the other hand, H2H is great at showing a team that is consistent week to week because your players have to perform well consistently thrroughout the season.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby chchelse » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:04 pm

FantasyFootballRocks wrote:If you lose in the championship game then you obvisouly don't have the best team. If you applied your logic to the real nfl then the Patriots didn't even need to play the championship game because they were by far the best team over the course of the season even if they would lose the championship game. Also, roto leagues are less accurate at showing who the best team is because a player could score a million points one week and get zeros the rest of the year and still win. One lucky week means you have the best team? On the other hand, H2H is great at showing a team that is consistent week to week because your players have to perform well consistently thrroughout the season.


I hate it when people try to use this kind of logic. Although it's true some one could score a hundreds of points one week and no points the rest of the weeks and still have the most points, going to this extreme is absurd. It is just as likely that in a 14 team league, one team scores 120 points each week and his opponents score 121 points each week they play him, and no points any other week. The first team would, in a 13 game season have1560 points and a average of 120pts/gm. while every other team would have 121 points and an average of 9.31pts/gm. Yet in the "holy grail" of a H2H league the first team would have the worst record and all the others would be fighting for tie-breakers to get into the playoffs. Again, going to these kind of extremes is ridiculous.
The fact is that too many people think that fantasy football is a skill game. If you are in a money league and doing your due diligence as everyone else in the league should be doing, it becomes luck. We all have the same information and draw similar conclusions. The only time one player would have an advantage over another is if: 1. one or more players didn't do proper research, 2. the inequity of draft positions, 3. if one or more players are picking by emotion instead of logic. 4. one or more players are drunk on draft day.
Think of it this way, if everyone in the league had the same knowledge base, and the same skill level, what would be the deciding factor in who would win? It would be fortune smiling upon that person. It is my belief that with the easy access to information today, especially on the internet, that the knowledge base is the same for all players. It is also my belief that as fantasy football has matured, the skill levels of the players involved has become barely distinguishable. If this is, as I believe, true, then it simply comes down to fortune or misfortune, as you would have it. That's my take..................
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby Free Bagel » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:29 pm

FantasyFootballRocks wrote:If you lose in the championship game then you obvisouly don't have the best team. If you applied your logic to the real nfl then the Patriots didn't even need to play the championship game because they were by far the best team over the course of the season even if they would lose the championship game. Also, roto leagues are less accurate at showing who the best team is because a player could score a million points one week and get zeros the rest of the year and still win. One lucky week means you have the best team? On the other hand, H2H is great at showing a team that is consistent week to week because your players have to perform well consistently thrroughout the season.


That's baloney.

The Patriots were the best team in the NFL last year by far, and I'm saying that as someone who HATES, LOATHES, and DESPISES the Patriots.

No team at any professional level will beat another team 100 times out of 100. Even the worst team in any league would beat the best 20 times out of 100, just because one of those 20 days happened to have been artificially declared the "championship" doesn't make them better.

If the Padres beat the Red Sox tomorrow that doesn't mean they're a better team, just like Arizona isn't a better college football team than USC even though they beat them this year.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby Timbathia » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:40 pm

chchelse wrote: The fact is that too many people think that fantasy football is a skill game. If you are in a money league and doing your due diligence as everyone else in the league should be doing, it becomes luck. We all have the same information and draw similar conclusions. The only time one player would have an advantage over another is if: 1. one or more players didn't do proper research, 2. the inequity of draft positions, 3. if one or more players are picking by emotion instead of logic. 4. one or more players are drunk on draft day.
Think of it this way, if everyone in the league had the same knowledge base, and the same skill level, what would be the deciding factor in who would win? It would be fortune smiling upon that person. It is my belief that with the easy access to information today, especially on the internet, that the knowledge base is the same for all players. It is also my belief that as fantasy football has matured, the skill levels of the players involved has become barely distinguishable. If this is, as I believe, true, then it simply comes down to fortune or misfortune, as you would have it. That's my take..................


I dont agree completely with this. Based on your logic, if a class room full of kids sat through the same lesson and then sat a test at the end, they would all do as well as each other (we know that doesnt happen). You can do a lot of research on FFL, but since all the 'experts' have different rankings or opinions on players, and there are different ways of drafting (both early and late), and you still have to make decisions during the season about players to keep, pickup, trade, etc., there is enough room for owners to have an advantages over others that isnt related to your 4 reasons stated above. Some guys are just much better at understanding how to balance their picks in a draft to optimise the talent, upside, consistency, etc. from their team , some owners are better at sifting through experts opinions or making their own about players and situtations, and some owners are just more logical than others when identifying/assessing possible trades, etc., etc. It isnt much of an advantage, but from what I have seen in a number of longtime leagues, there are some owners that are just consistently better than others despite them all doing loads of research.

In a hardcore cafe league you would probably not see much of what I am talking about, as most in here are only in here because they are obsessed with FFL and understand all the nuances pretty darn well.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby FantasyFootballRocks » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:56 pm

I don't really understand this whole argument; it seems that you dislike playoffs of any kind because the best team can lose on any given sunday. Just because you won your first 15 games of the fantasy football season doesn't mean you should win the last game. So apparently if you do well the first 15 games you should automatically be crowned champion without playing the last game because nobody has a better team in terms of record/points. I think this is why people like H2H because on any given Sunday your team can pull off the upset. But in a points only league where you might be down 100 points in the final week it becomes impossible to win.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby moochman » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:03 am

Free Bagel wrote:
moochman wrote:Are you playing your championship game on week 17? If so stop.
If you are not and you have lost becuase your stud sat week 16, the onus is still on you. There are elements of strategy needed for the end of a season, especially with championship implications. You should have been thinking in advance and handcuffed or traded for another quality replacement who has a soft game that week.


There is much more to it than simple handcuffs and whatnot, great players can just have poor games. You can still be fielding the best team during championship week and lose. In a points league, LT is going to be a top 3 player for you over the course of the season. In a H2H league he is unlikely to finish in the top 3 during championship week, just because there is so much variation.

Someone fielding LT and AD (last year's two best PPG scorers I believe) during week 16 last year probably would have been outscored by the opposing team's RBs. Someone fielding Westbrook and AD (two of the top 3) would have likely been annhilated by the opposing team's RBs.


I'm not saying it's all about handcuffing, but it is about preparing for a playoff run. You get a back-up for a stud that may sit or not see much time. You also try to bolster the rest of your line-up so that shoud LT go into his playoff slump the rest of the team can better pick him up. It's kind of like...um...football. Yeah, it's just like that. The playoffs come and if you stud stumbles you are more likely to lose. Roto removes that and can make the last weeks meaningless. And that should never happen.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby chchelse » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:20 am

Timbathia wrote:
chchelse wrote: The fact is that too many people think that fantasy football is a skill game. If you are in a money league and doing your due diligence as everyone else in the league should be doing, it becomes luck. We all have the same information and draw similar conclusions. The only time one player would have an advantage over another is if: 1. one or more players didn't do proper research, 2. the inequity of draft positions, 3. if one or more players are picking by emotion instead of logic. 4. one or more players are drunk on draft day.
Think of it this way, if everyone in the league had the same knowledge base, and the same skill level, what would be the deciding factor in who would win? It would be fortune smiling upon that person. It is my belief that with the easy access to information today, especially on the internet, that the knowledge base is the same for all players. It is also my belief that as fantasy football has matured, the skill levels of the players involved has become barely distinguishable. If this is, as I believe, true, then it simply comes down to fortune or misfortune, as you would have it. That's my take..................


I dont agree completely with this. Based on your logic, if a class room full of kids sat through the same lesson and then sat a test at the end, they would all do as well as each other (we know that doesnt happen). You can do a lot of research on FFL, but since all the 'experts' have different rankings or opinions on players, and there are different ways of drafting (both early and late), and you still have to make decisions during the season about players to keep, pickup, trade, etc., there is enough room for owners to have an advantages over others that isnt related to your 4 reasons stated above. Some guys are just much better at understanding how to balance their picks in a draft to optimise the talent, upside, consistency, etc. from their team , some owners are better at sifting through experts opinions or making their own about players and situtations, and some owners are just more logical than others when identifying/assessing possible trades, etc., etc. It isnt much of an advantage, but from what I have seen in a number of longtime leagues, there are some owners that are just consistently better than others despite them all doing loads of research.

In a hardcore cafe league you would probably not see much of what I am talking about, as most in here are only in here because they are obsessed with FFL and understand all the nuances pretty darn well.


Agreed, the reality is everyone is not on the same page in the majority of leagues and in these leagues, the same players seem to be in the playoffs consistently. I was thinking more along the lines of your last sentence. I have found that as a league matures, players become more savvy, and fortune becomes a greater element.
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