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Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby chchelse » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:35 am

FantasyFootballRocks wrote:I don't really understand this whole argument; it seems that you dislike playoffs of any kind because the best team can lose on any given sunday. Just because you won your first 15 games of the fantasy football season doesn't mean you should win the last game. So apparently if you do well the first 15 games you should automatically be crowned champion without playing the last game because nobody has a better team in terms of record/points. I think this is why people like H2H because on any given Sunday your team can pull off the upset. But in a points only league where you might be down 100 points in the final week it becomes impossible to win.


How many teams make the playoffs in your league? In my league only 2 teams from each division make the playoffs. The challenge over the first 13 weeks is to just make the playoffs and I believe this does separate out the best teams. But in the playoffs it's just one game and so many variables, out of your control, can conspire to defeat you (weather in December, injuries, DNP-coaches decision, starters play a half, etc etc). Under these circumstances, to say that the player who wins the championship is the "best team" is a little naive. How about this, they were the "best team" that week playing in that game. :-)
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby My team is injured » Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:20 am

Honestly, I think there's an easy solution to all this. Split the money up. Some goes to the points leader(s) (at the end of the regular season), and then some goes to the playoff champ (and 2nd/3rd place if desired). That's how my one league's been for years, and we've finally transitioned over to a bit more of a split payout in my other leagues though I think they are both still skewed too heavily to the playoff champ. Divvying up the money both rewards teams who are great the entire season and have one bad/unlucky week come playoff time as well as keeping interest in it til the end due to teams competing for playoff spots and having a chance to win in the playoffs even if they trail the points leader by a ton.

chchelse wrote:As a person who has seen too many of the best team in the league lose out in the playoffs and get nothing (money -wise) I went to a system where we divided the after-expenses money in half, one- half going to 1st, 2nd, 3rd place for the playoffs and one-half to 1st, 2nd and 3rd for highest point totals.


Are you in my league? I think the money became spread a bit too much in our league last year as we transitioned to this exact payout structure last year (though we dropped the 3rd place for the points race after I contended that was a bit of an overkill). Interesting to see someone else with the same distribution though. I had enough trouble getting my other 2 leagues to pay out just enough for an owner to break even and get their money back after putting up the top points for a season.

FantasyFootballRocks wrote:Also, roto leagues are less accurate at showing who the best team is because a player could score a million points one week and get zeros the rest of the year and still win. One lucky week means you have the best team? On the other hand, H2H is great at showing a team that is consistent week to week because your players have to perform well consistently thrroughout the season.


Chchelse already addressed some of my gripes with your reply, but using H2H as a means of determining the best team has plenty of flaws. For one, there's no defense against the opposition in fantasy football and each year, there's a team in at least one of my leagues that plays top-scoring teams on a weekly basis way more often than everyone else.

Anyway, I like the H2H format and just complement it with paying out for points as well. But the best gage I've seen of determining the best team in a league over the course of a season is the "Breakdown" record supported in CBS leagues. It's a record of how each team would have fared against every other team had they played them, compiled for all the weeks of a season. While we don't use it for anything other than bragging rights, it seems to me to be the best method for ranking teams.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby LS2throwed » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:35 pm

My team is injured wrote:Chchelse already addressed some of my gripes with your reply, but using H2H as a means of determining the best team has plenty of flaws. For one, there's no defense against the opposition in fantasy football and each year, there's a team in at least one of my leagues that plays top-scoring teams on a weekly basis way more often than everyone else.

Anyway, I like the H2H format and just complement it with paying out for points as well. But the best gage I've seen of determining the best team in a league over the course of a season is the "Breakdown" record supported in CBS leagues. It's a record of how each team would have fared against every other team had they played them, compiled for all the weeks of a season. While we don't use it for anything other than bragging rights, it seems to me to be the best method for ranking teams.




Fantasy Football should just be like the real NFL when it comes to a matchup, seriously who cares about "one team plays better teams more often then none" well that happens in the NFL all the time, the Pats have an easy division where they should beat all 3 teams without a problem, I just don't see the appeal in a pts league...Where is the skill in deciding who to start each week? That's a huge chunk of FF taken away right there, go with the stud with the tough matchup or the WW pickup with the easy matchup, thats apart of the element to FF, that shouldn't be taken away...Who cares about if the "best team" really won or not, the Patriots lost the super bowl, the 15-1 Vikings are never talked about because they somehow lost to the Falcons, none of that really matters, it should be H2H imho and even though you cannot control each outcome it's the way it should be...



H2H also gives room for the underdog, the team who snuck into the playoffs with a trade right before the deadline, and now he can compete, in a pts league guys who come out the gate slow, it doesn't matter if they make a trade late into the season if they are out of it...Guys with powerhouses can just leave their roster as is and rack up pts every week without setting lineups, I don't see the excitement factor there with that.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby My team is injured » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:02 pm

LS2throwed wrote:Fantasy Football should just be like the real NFL when it comes to a matchup, seriously who cares about "one team plays better teams more often then none" well that happens in the NFL all the time, the Pats have an easy division where they should beat all 3 teams without a problem, I just don't see the appeal in a pts league...Where is the skill in deciding who to start each week? That's a huge chunk of FF taken away right there, go with the stud with the tough matchup or the WW pickup with the easy matchup, thats apart of the element to FF, that shouldn't be taken away...Who cares about if the "best team" really won or not, the Patriots lost the super bowl, the 15-1 Vikings are never talked about because they somehow lost to the Falcons, none of that really matters, it should be H2H imho and even though you cannot control each outcome it's the way it should be...

H2H also gives room for the underdog, the team who snuck into the playoffs with a trade right before the deadline, and now he can compete, in a pts league guys who come out the gate slow, it doesn't matter if they make a trade late into the season if they are out of it...Guys with powerhouses can just leave their roster as is and rack up pts every week without setting lineups, I don't see the excitement factor there with that.


Oh, I agree, and I like H2H for the smack-talking and rivalries it fosters as well as the little quirks each season such as a team getting bad luck by facing top point-scorers on a weekly basis or the situation you posed with an underdog slipping into the playoffs by grabbing the last spot and then winning it all. I never advocated for a points league as opposed to a H2H league, just divvying up the money between the points leader(s) as well as the playoff champ(s) resulting from the H2H format.

And I have no idea what you're referring to with the "who to start each week" comments. In every league I've ever been in that's awarded a portion of the money for points, it's only based on points scored by the starters on a team so you still have to choose starters each week based on matchups, waiver-wire vs. your team, etc. No different than H2H.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby chchelse » Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:25 pm

LS2throwed wrote:
My team is injured wrote:Chchelse already addressed some of my gripes with your reply, but using H2H as a means of determining the best team has plenty of flaws. For one, there's no defense against the opposition in fantasy football and each year, there's a team in at least one of my leagues that plays top-scoring teams on a weekly basis way more often than everyone else.

Anyway, I like the H2H format and just complement it with paying out for points as well. But the best gage I've seen of determining the best team in a league over the course of a season is the "Breakdown" record supported in CBS leagues. It's a record of how each team would have fared against every other team had they played them, compiled for all the weeks of a season. While we don't use it for anything other than bragging rights, it seems to me to be the best method for ranking teams.




Fantasy Football should just be like the real NFL when it comes to a matchup, seriously who cares about "one team plays better teams more often then none" well that happens in the NFL all the time, the Pats have an easy division where they should beat all 3 teams without a problem, I just don't see the appeal in a pts league...Where is the skill in deciding who to start each week? That's a huge chunk of FF taken away right there, go with the stud with the tough matchup or the WW pickup with the easy matchup, thats apart of the element to FF, that shouldn't be taken away...Who cares about if the "best team" really won or not, the Patriots lost the super bowl, the 15-1 Vikings are never talked about because they somehow lost to the Falcons, none of that really matters, it should be H2H imho and even though you cannot control each outcome it's the way it should be...



H2H also gives room for the underdog, the team who snuck into the playoffs with a trade right before the deadline, and now he can compete, in a pts league guys who come out the gate slow, it doesn't matter if they make a trade late into the season if they are out of it...Guys with powerhouses can just leave their roster as is and rack up pts every week without setting lineups, I don't see the excitement factor there with that.


Are you suggesting that in a league where points are important that the players don't make roster decisions, make trades, and hit the waiver wires for the best available players? That makes no sense at all. Perhaps you don't understand the concept of a points league. You only get points for the players you start, not your bench. Usually the team with the most points had a good draft, has excellent depth to take advantage of match-ups, and makes wise trades and waiver pickups. No-one in my leagues just sets their roster and waits for the end of the season. We have literally hundreds of transactions a year as people try to improve there teams. Furthermore, if you have a reasonable amount of teams make the playoffs (since your so hung up on making it just like the NFL, lets say than 38% or less), over a 13 game schedule, no team sneaks into the playoffs, those that are worthy are there. The only NFL game fantasy football resembles is the Pro Bowl. And nobody cares about that.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby MrTwo94 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:04 pm

Azrael wrote:The only thing total points does is makes sure the best team wins. The whole competition aspect is completely taken away. Halfway through the year half your league doesn't give a crap because they have no chance to win.


Huh? Shouldn't the best team win? The competition is still there. You are all competing to have the most points. H2H will always be the favorite among fantasy sports, though. It introduces a huge luck factor into the equation giving even the worst managers at least a little hope. But let's face it, even with H2H, most of the time there are quite a few teams that "don't give a crap crap bc they have no chance to win." And the worst part about it is that sometimes one of the best teams is in that mix. I've seen teams with the most points end up with losing records. I'll admit, H2H does introduce some fun smack talking opportunities but we all know each week means nothing special. TO isn't going to step it up in week 7 just bc you are playing your rival. It is silly. What it boils down to is that H2H caters to the weak, giving them a chance. Points is for people who want to see who the best is. I'd love to play points but no one is ever down. That's just the way it is going to be.
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Re: Anyone prefer points league's over H2H?

Postby dream_017 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:13 pm

A wise man once said:

Wise man wrote:It takes skill to make the fantasy playoffs and it takes luck to win the championship
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