LS2throwed wrote:Why didn't they come to the decision that he shouldn't or couldn't play in the NFL before the draft, because I'm sure they had a chance to rule on it then...Seems like a little bad timing, although its not even close when you look at whats really important, I'm just wondering why this ruling couldn't of been handed down months ago well before the draft process.
LS2throwed wrote:Why didn't they come to the decision that he shouldn't or couldn't play in the NFL before the draft, because I'm sure they had a chance to rule on it then...Seems like a little bad timing, although its not even close when you look at whats really important, I'm just wondering why this ruling couldn't of been handed down months ago well before the draft process.
Exactly.
This affects more people than Campbell in more sports than football. It also affects 2 baseball players who are currently playing minor league ball. I am sure their major league teams would have liked this decision before the MLB Draft in June. Why it came out now is because classes haven't started yet.
LS2throwed wrote:Why didn't they come to the decision that he shouldn't or couldn't play in the NFL before the draft, because I'm sure they had a chance to rule on it then...Seems like a little bad timing, although its not even close when you look at whats really important, I'm just wondering why this ruling couldn't of been handed down months ago well before the draft process.
The Army had plenty of time to think this through, yet proved short-sighted. Caleb should have never of been offered the possibility. Than if he wanted to try football he need not have ever enrolled.
“It’s unfortunate, but it doesn’t mean Caleb Campbell’s dream is dead. It just means it will be delayed,” Army spokeswoman Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb told The Associated Press. “We want to take care of soldiers and dashing their hopes is not what we intend. But it is what it is.”
Spokesperson should never speak on what they do not know. His dream is dead. Quickly, name me any 7th round pick who returned to play in the league? If they don't want to dash dreams than they shouldn't dangle that carrot.
Navy Secretary Donald C. Winter ruled last month that Mitch Harris must serve a five-year active duty commitment. Harris, a 22-year-old pitcher with a 95-mph fastball, was selected by the St. Louis Cardinals in the 13th round in this year’s draft.
Harris acknowledged being surprised by the ruling because Campbell was being allowed to pursue football while completing his military service as a recruiter and in the reserves.
“Army has redefined the Alternative Service Option to include playing professional sports,” Navy athletic director Chet Gladchuk has said. “Our coaches are now operating under a significant handicap when recruiting head-to-head with Army. It may not be reflected on the playing field today, but I can guarantee you that it will result in a competitive disadvantage down the road.”
And the real reason for it-ye ole Army/Navy rivalry. The Navy felt it gave the Army an edge in recruiting so they destroyed this poor young man's dreams. Okay a bit dramatic. Wonder if Navy Secretary Winter hadn't have whined if this would have happened?
And there is no truth to the rumor that Caleb asked to serve his term once he found out what being a Lion was.
My dad, a west point grad and 30 year vet, said this same thing.
Ok, so we paid 300 K (its actually 227 K, but whats 75K). That is one guy. How about all of the scholarships given out to regular football players from public schools that are paid for by taxpayers as well? Scholarship money in public schools is taken from tax payer money so its the same thing. Also, by allowing them to do this IF they are good enough to get drafted would lure more people into the Army and Navy. With the real chances of people being drafted being kid of low, IMO that means there are more people that will come and become officers than coming and being drafted. This means we made up for the loss of soldiers trained by getting more to go. Further, there are officers that went to West Point that became recruiters, so its not like it is unprecedented. IMO, this would not have happened if the Navy would not have complained, and that is my problem with this.
deerayfan072 wrote:Ok, so we paid 300 K (its actually 227 K, but whats 75K).
It's not actually 227K. 300K was actually a conservative guesstimate. It's likely higher.
GetIntoAcademy.com wrote:You thought Harvard’s yearly tuition (without room and board) of $34,000 was expensive? Or how about the most expensive college in the United States at a rate of $38,000 per year? Then you will be surprised to hear that the service academies’ tuition far surpasses that of any civilian college or university.
For a particular example, the four years of experience at the United States Military Academy at West Point are estimated to be worth $478,000. Producing leaders for the US Army is a very expensive process. Is the investment worth it? Yes, because these future officers protect all American citizens from endangerment and chaos. Also keep in mind that this annual figure of about $120,000 includes everything such as tuition, room & board, and other miscellaneous fees described below.
* Military training, intramural activities, and travel * Accumulated pay of about $10,000 per year for being in the Army * Medical and dental care * Uniforms, clothing, books, computers, and pretty much everything else that is necessary to attend the Academy * Laundry and haircuts * After graduation, West Point also pays for graduate school
noted that it costs taxpayers $226,190 a year to train and educate each cadet. Tongue in cheek, he went on to suggest that the West Point barracks be turned over to New York State as a prison facility.
Time article from 2005, which was one year after Caleb started.
Cost per year for a student to go to a school like UVA (Jake Long went there and was drafted)
$40,473 + travel -- Using fed aid elig.
So the student athletes are getting something similar to the soldiers and there are a lot them going to the NFL. Why not be ticked about them getting in and not paying us taxpayers back? Even if they got half of that, think about the number going to school on taxpayers dimes that go to the draft. Why are these student athletes any different? They get a "scholarship" they have to pay back by working for a couple years, while these other athletes just go to school. I am sure there is a great explanation, but I don't see it.
--- Edited -- For the record, Caleb knew his chances were slim to go in the draft and he was not promised this when he started, so I am fine with this on that level. He is a solider and will fulfill what he promised. As the son of a guy who endured (i use endured and not went for a reason) for 4 years as a student athlete and then served his country as a tank commander for 30 years, I take offense to being told that the taxpayers are owed time for one soldier's training. There are men that stay in long past there 2-4 year commitment that is required, there are men that gave the ultimate sacrifice, and there are men that still fight to this day. The tax payers get there due back and then some, but that means nothing to these soldiers. They do this because that is what they have always wanted to do and they do not complain. To say that we taxpayers are owed something for training one solider is laughable to me. Even if you lost one solider each year to the draft, you are being more than compensated in the long run.
I don't see how that's similar. Let's say travel costs round that figure off to $45K which is $180K over the course of a standard education. According to the TIME article you posted it costs $226,190 a year to train and educate each cadet which equals 900K. Just from a financial perspective, that's huge.
Secondly, I think there is a flaw in the 40K because even at public schools tuition grants are not close to being 100% public funded.
deerayfan072 wrote:I take offense to being told that the taxpayers are owed time for one soldier's training.
This country is owed the time. I'm sorry you take offense to that but it just is. We don't conscript these kids. It is a choice and a commitment they make.
1) The Army permitted him to play - the Department of Defense overturned that decision. Unfortunately, only minutes before he signed the Lions contract and went to training camp.
2) I don't know if he planned to or if it was part of the agreement, but he was going to repay West Point the $300k (or whatever the appropriate amount was) from the proceeds of his contract. It would not have cost taxpayers a dime.
3) The kid never said he wouldn't serve or anything. Both the Army and he thought good recruiting (a HUGE need for the armed forces right now) would result from this. But from the draft on, he realized this could be taken away at any moment. While disappointed, especially with the timing, he sounds like he was prepared for this as a real possibility.
And he never thought he had a career in football...he was not highly recruited out of high school. This was kind of a bonus he was willing to take advantage of.
Now he will serve his country just as hundreds of thousands of our other men and women do. I thank him for his service and wish he and his family the best.
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by spodog » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:51 pm 
Wonder if Navy Secretary Winter hadn't have whined if this would have happened?
