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Games Talk Week 2

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Re: Games Talk Week 2

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:24 am

Free Bagel wrote:So....wagers on ECU being #1 in Hskrfan's poll this week? :-b


see I saw his top 30 already I can't comment O:-)
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Re: Games Talk Week 2

Postby Free Bagel » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:22 am

ChipaDub wrote:
eagles21 wrote:
HskrPwr13 wrote:Horrendous!!! These flags for excessive celebration have got to STOP!!! That just cost Washington OT. The refs decided the game. Horrible!


Yep, I was wondering if anyone saw that. That was a horrible call. Tossing the ball in the air after a game tying TD is unsportsmanlike? Ok. :-t

That ref needs to be fired.


That is 100% on the rules committee's fault, not the ref. The rule specifically and explicitly says "if the player throws the ball up into the air it is a penalty". There is no judgement, no interpretation there, the ball was obviously thrown up into the air.

The really cruddy part is that they interviewed the head of the rules committee about it and he tried to pass it off on the official saying that "in his judgement it was a penalty" even though the specific question he was asked was in regards to the rule about the ball being thrown up in the air. What a major, major jerkoff that guy is.
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Re: Games Talk Week 2

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:43 am

Free Bagel wrote:
That is 100% on the rules committee's fault, not the ref. The rule specifically and explicitly says "if the player throws the ball up into the air it is a penalty". There is no judgement, no interpretation there, the ball was obviously thrown up into the air.

The really cruddy part is that they interviewed the head of the rules committee about it and he tried to pass it off on the official saying that "in his judgement it was a penalty" even though the specific question he was asked was in regards to the rule about the ball being thrown up in the air. What a major, major jerkoff that guy is.


I don't ever think anyone has ever thought otherwise :-b

I agree though, terrible rule, but the ref was just enforcing that dumb rule. The NCAA has gone to an extreme to stop celebrations and it is ridiculous. This is college ball. These guys are playing for their school, their teammates, and for championships, not money. There is so much emotion in these games and to expect them not to show it is utterly absurd.
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Re: Games Talk Week 2

Postby ChipaDub » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:32 am

There is always room for interpretation. They let holding penalties go by all day long. That ref is a jerk, or an idiot or both.
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Re: Games Talk Week 2

Postby ShoelessJoe » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:54 am

ChipaDub wrote:There is always room for interpretation. They let holding penalties go by all day long. That ref is a jerk, or an idiot or both.


Let's recap.

1. The ref's job is to enforce the rules.
2. The rule says that if you throw the ball in the air after a TD it's a penalty.
3. The guy threw the ball up in the air.
4. The ref said it was a penalty.

And it's the ref's fault because he didn't exercise interpretation? Get real. The second we let these refs interpret calls is when we have inconsistently from refs, which is one thing that nobody can live with. If there are the most asinine rules ever... as long as they're consistently called, I don't see any reason to complain. But when you allow refs to interpret rule X depending on situation Y that is when you have the players playing a game where they don't know the rules because each ref interprets the rules differently each week.

The head of the rules committee needs to step up and take it like a man.
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Re: Games Talk Week 2

Postby ChipaDub » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:29 pm

ShoelessJoe wrote:
ChipaDub wrote:There is always room for interpretation. They let holding penalties go by all day long. That ref is a jerk, or an idiot or both.


Let's recap.

1. The ref's job is to enforce the rules.
2. The rule says that if you throw the ball in the air after a TD it's a penalty.
3. The guy threw the ball up in the air.
4. The ref said it was a penalty.

And it's the ref's fault because he didn't exercise interpretation? Get real. The second we let these refs interpret calls is when we have inconsistently from refs, which is one thing that nobody can live with. If there are the most asinine rules ever... as long as they're consistently called, I don't see any reason to complain. But when you allow refs to interpret rule X depending on situation Y that is when you have the players playing a game where they don't know the rules because each ref interprets the rules differently each week.

The head of the rules committee needs to step up and take it like a man.


Let's recap, but in reality this time.

Ref's make subjective calls all the time. They let many go and create some they don't need to. They are paid professionals who should have some sort of common sense. Unfortunately for UW, his common sense left him at the time. Any official knows the bottom line is you let the players decide the game, not you.
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Re: Games Talk Week 2

Postby ShoelessJoe » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:50 pm

ChipaDub wrote:
Let's recap, but in reality this time.

Ref's make subjective calls all the time. They let many go and create some they don't need to. They are paid professionals who should have some sort of common sense. Unfortunately for UW, his common sense left him at the time. Any official knows the bottom line is you let the players decide the game, not you.


Yeah, you're right. You shouldn't call a penalty that is in the rule book in the 4th quarter because the players didn't decide it, the ref did. The ref is the one who should be to blame for throwing the flag on the player who committed a foul, not the player who committed it. It's not the player's responsibility to know the rules and play by them, the ref should realize that it's the fourth quarter and that he isn't allowed to call penalties!

The ref didn't decide to throw the ball up in the air, the player did. The player decided the game, not the ref.

If I were a player, I think it would behoove (sp?) me to know the rules and abide by them. Actually, if I were a D-1 quarterback I might even be able to ask a coach if I was allowed to celebrate, I'm guessing that someone on these massive staffs knows every rule inside and out. Even if it's a stupid rule, it's the rule, you need to know it and play by it.
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Re: Games Talk Week 2

Postby deerayfan072 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:53 pm

ChipaDub wrote: Any official knows the bottom line is you let the players decide the game, not you.



As I said before I think it is a terrible rule and the guy shouldn't have called it, so I am with you on that, but I have a problem with the above statement, which has been thrown out by all the media. I understand that the ref blew the call and made them back up, but it was a 17 yard FG. I could even understand if he were to miss the thing left or right because you pulled it back (I still think you should hit a 17 yarder), but it got blocked. The players did decide it because BYU blocked an extra point. If the O-Line doesn't allow penetration then UW is going into over time. As I said, hate the rule and the call, but I think the call causing the loss is a logical leap I am not willing to take.
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Re: Games Talk Week 2

Postby knapplc » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:36 pm

Rule 9-2-1a(2)(c) wrote:After a score or any other play, the player in possession immediately must return the ball to an official or leave it near the dead-ball spot. This prohibits:
(a) Kicking, throwing, spinning or carrying (including off of the field) the ball any distance that requires an official to retrieve it.
(b) Spiking the ball to the ground [Exception: A forward pass to conserve time (Rule 7-3-2-d)].
(c) Throwing the ball high into the air.
(d) Any other unsportsmanlike act or actions that delay the game.


If you look at the replay, Locker threw the ball so high in the air that it didn't hit him until he had taken two steps and hugged a teammate. THEN it came down and hit him. I counted two seconds of hang time, which is a decent height.

Contrary to some of the statements in this thread, there IS an interpretable part of this rule: The Ref must define what "high" means before he throws his flag. Having watched the replay, I would define the ball as being thrown "high."

Now, that doesn't mean that this isn't a stupid rule. It is. The NCAA is removing a very human part of the game by penalizing Locker for this, and it's stupid. Football is about fun; it's a sport, not a job. It seems with rules like this that they want robots out there, not kids. Kids are high on emotion, and in this situation, scoring a tying TD with seconds to spare, it was a huge emotional play, and I liked Locker's very human reaction.

I get that we don't want NFL-type displays out there. I think they should all act like they've been there before. But in THAT situation in THAT game, what he did should NOT be a penalty. It's ridiculous and it hurts the sport.
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Re: Games Talk Week 2

Postby bigh0rt » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:27 pm

knapplc wrote:Now, that doesn't mean that this isn't a stupid rule. It is. The NCAA is removing a very human part of the game by penalizing Locker for this, and it's stupid. Football is about fun; it's a sport, not a job. It seems with rules like this that they want robots out there, not kids. Kids are high on emotion, and in this situation, scoring a tying TD with seconds to spare, it was a huge emotional play, and I liked Locker's very human reaction.

Stupid or otherwise (I agree stupid), what the referee did here was correct. He enforced the rule. He did his job properly. It's not his job to create the rules, just enforce them; and you yourself said that the act itself was in violation, with the ball being thrown 'high'. I think it was definitely in violation, as the rule is stated. Doesn't mean I think it's a good rule, as I don't, but the blame cannot lay at the referee for appropriately enforcing a rule, whether we feel it was interpreted properly or not.
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